Retired Annuitants EDIT: Roster Exempt Sales

[Sacramento Gun Club]

Folks,

We just received notice from CA DOJ that they do not acknowledge retired annuitants as peace officers and that they are not exempt from the roster. Their reasoning behind it is that the RA status can be revoked at any time. This interpretation was allegedly from DOJ's legal department.

Our GM is trying to get DOJ to place this in writing and I will know more as I'm advised. Have any of you received this interpretation as of late? Their logic makes no sense, as usual.


EDIT: 12/22/15

Ok, it appears that the root of the DOJ reasoning is PC 32000(b)(4):

32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to,
or purchased by, the Department of Justice, a police department, a
sheriff's official, a marshal's office, the Department of Corrections
and Rehabilitation, the California Highway Patrol, any district
attorney's office, any federal law enforcement agency, or the
military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for
use in the discharge of their official duties. This section does not
prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies
of a handgun.

DOJ is splitting hairs on which LEOs are roster exempt. Essentially anyone who is not a sworn member of these specific agencies isn't roster exempt. This excludes county probations, park rangers, any other county or state LEOs, etc. . . from purchasing "unsafe" pistols. DOJ did not clarify on RAs that returned as ROs, however ROs are sworn members of these listed agencies.

[Condorguns]

I'm not familiar with this......

[RickD427]

Folks,

We just received notice from CA DOJ that they do not acknowledge retired annuitants as peace officers and that they are not exempt from the roster. Their reasoning behind it is that the RA status can be revoked at any time. This interpretation was allegedly from DOJ's legal department.

Our GM is trying to get DOJ to place this in writing and I will know more as I'm advised. Have any of you received this interpretation as of late? Their logic makes no sense, as usual.

When you say "Retired Annuitant" are you referring to a retired peace officer?

If so, this is nothing new. Retired peace officers lose their active peace officer status upon retirement.

The ability to purchase "off-roster" also goes away with retirement.

I'd double-check your belief that "RA status can be revoked at any time." The Public Employee Retirement act of 1937 provides otherwise.

The reason that active peace officer status goes away with retirement is that the Penal Code definition of a peace officers includes "being employed" in one of the listed capacities. That's no longer true once retired.

[TKM]

https://boomerang.ca.gov/sr_eligible.aspx

Why didn't I become a tax maggot?

[Abu Riyah]

A CA State Retired Annuitant is a person that has retired and is receiving their pension and retiree medical, but has been rehired by their agency. The RA benefits from it because they get a salary on top of their CalPERS pension and medical insurance. The agency benefits because they keep an experienced employee and no longer have to pay retirement and medical contributions, just the straight salary.

[Jeepergeo]

A CA State Retired Annuitant is a person that has retired and is receiving their pension and retiree medical, but has been rehired by their agency. The RA benefits from it because they get a salary on top of their CalPERS pension and medical insurance. The agency benefits because they keep an experienced employee and no longer have to pay retirement and medical contributions, just the straight salary.

Yep, a program that contributes to unemployment and under employment. Once a Gobbermint EE retires, that should be it. Let younger folks move up or new folks move in.

The "experience" rationale is a fraud.

[Sacramento Gun Club]

This becomes an issue for situations where the RAs hold peace officer powers under reserve officer positions or on-call positions. They're RAs, but still active peace officers according to the PC. Last I checked, ROs are roster exempt.

Waiting on DOJ to clarify this.

[oddjob]

I think there are two definitions of retired annuitant at work here. The state definition is different than the local agency "reserve officer" definition.

[Flyron]

As an RA employee, they must maintain all agency qualifications to serve in previous duty positions!

[Sacramento Gun Club]

Ok, it appears that the root of the DOJ reasoning is PC 32000(b)(4):

32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to,
or purchased by, the Department of Justice, a police department, a
sheriff's official, a marshal's office, the Department of Corrections
and Rehabilitation, the California Highway Patrol, any district
attorney's office, any federal law enforcement agency, or the
military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for
use in the discharge of their official duties. This section does not
prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies
of a handgun.

DOJ is splitting hairs on which LEOs are roster exempt. Essentially anyone who is not a sworn member of these specific agencies is not roster exempt. This excludes county probations, park rangers, any other county or state LEOs, etc. . . from purchasing "unsafe" pistols.

DOJ did not clarify on RAs that returned as ROs, however ROs are sworn members of these listed agencies. As of now, we're turning away off-roster purchases to any peace officers not listed in this PC section.

Another issue that I see is this PC does not specify that these agencies need to be from CA and state "any" with exception to CHP and CDCR. Does that mean any LEO from any state's respective agencies listed are exempt?

Anyone else experiencing this?

[Librarian]

Another issue that I see is this PC does not specify that these agencies need to be from CA and state "any" with exception to CHP and CDCR. Does that mean any LEO from any state's respective agencies listed are exempt?

Since LEO from other states' agencies would almost certainly not be CA residents, and thus ineligible under CA law to purchase handguns, I don't see this as much of an issue.

[kemasa]

Since LEO from other states' agencies would almost certainly not be CA residents, and thus ineligible under CA law to purchase handguns, I don't see this as much of an issue.

How about a NV LEO who lives in CA? Lake Tahoe would be a prime example :-).

[Sacramento Gun Club]

Ah, that's right. . . Residency requirement. Thanks for the reminder.

[Librarian]

How about a NV LEO who lives in CA? Lake Tahoe would be a prime example :-).

Thus 'almost certainly' ...

[Patfishandshoot]

I think the folks at DOJ in Sacramento are confusing a RETIRED peace officer with a REHIRED annuitant. An "RA" with an emphasis on the "R" standing for REHIRED still retains full peace officer status, while an actual retired officer has none (unless they come back to the agency as a reserve or is a RA..under a DROP program).