Conditional Use Permits

[ugimports]

Are any of you in areas where you need a conditional use permit? If so, are you the only FFL in your area that is required to go through the "review" process every few years?

In Fremont, there's at least:
Big 5 Sporting Goods
Annie's Guns
and now Dicks Sporting Goods

Annie's and Big 5 have been here forever, but I'm the only FFL that has to go through a CUP review. The process isn't difficult and up until now I always get renewed, but it cost me ~$2k each review and I don't understand why I'm the only guy getting checked.

The zoning/administrative stuff says I need a permit (fine), but it doesn't regulate how often you have to get reviewed so it is arbitrary by the city council. Does anyone know if I have any legal recourse to be on the same playing field as others or am I basically SOL?

Thanks

[Baboosh]

We had to do a CUP at first because they wanted a traffic survey done() and an environmental report because we are a manufacturer. Cost us a few thousand in attorney fees to contest the environmental report and we just ponied up the money for the traffic report. I literally laughed when I was in city hall and they were going over these.

But I would be pissed if they did a CUP every year, that sucks.

[ugimports]

We had to do a CUP at first because they wanted a traffic survey done() and an environmental report because we are a manufacturer. Cost us a few thousand in attorney fees to contest the environmental report and we just ponied up the money for the traffic report. I literally laughed when I was in city hall and they were going over these.

But I would be pissed if they did a CUP every year, that sucks.

My planning commission contact said I can request to get the annual review nixed this year. So I'm going to go down that road and hopefully be done with it after this year. I already have to get my local PD permit renewed annually so I would think if they had a problem with me they could always just revoke my PD permit. Don't see the extra reason to go to an extra city council review. In the past review all they end up doing is asking the rest of the council:
Has anyone heard anything bad/complaints about these guys? (No)
Has the PD reported any issues with these guys? (No)
No? Ok, motion in favor of renewing? Seconded?

[Chewy65]

Are those other dealers in the same zone as you or have they been in business before your zone called for a CUP? Can you get any 411 from anybody with those other dealers as to how often they have to renew? Have you asked anyone with the zoning department what is up? Will your planning commission contact tell you anything other than you can petition to have the annual review nixed this year? Sometimes it is just politic$ and who you know. You may want to find a local attorney with some expertise in zoning. I say local since they may know their way about, and have some of their own contacts at the city.

[ugimports]

Are those other dealers in the same zone as you or have they been in business before your zone called for a CUP?

I think they were grandfathered in (been in business way before me).

Can you get any 411 from anybody with those other dealers as to how often they have to renew?

They don't

Have you asked anyone with the zoning department what is up?

They are zoned where a CUP is needed, but as stated above I think they were grandfathered in before that was required.

Sometimes it is just politic$ and who you know. You may want to find a local attorney with some expertise in zoning. I say local since they may know their way about, and have some contacts, in your zoning department.

My zone actually changed since I moved in. When I started it was CBD (Central Business District) and firearm were ok with CUP. Since Fremont is re-doing downtime they have rezoned me to D-MD (Downtown Mid) and firearms are no longer listed as an acceptable use even with CUP. Hopefully I didn't just get my a@@ booted and I get grandfathered into my existing location.

I would assume yes Because the Big 5 Sporting Goods has been re-zoned to D-E (Downtown <something>) which isn't any good for firearms either.

In short, I think the other shops were grandfathered into their locations not requiring the CUP and I just got screwed.. hopefully I can get out of ongoing renewals because it's just a waste of money and really doesn't do anything except force me to give more money to the city.

[Baboosh]

My planning commission contact said I can request to get the annual review nixed this year. So I'm going to go down that road and hopefully be done with it after this year. I already have to get my local PD permit renewed annually so I would think if they had a problem with me they could always just revoke my PD permit. Don't see the extra reason to go to an extra city council review. In the past review all they end up doing is asking the rest of the council:
Has anyone heard anything bad/complaints about these guys? (No)
Has the PD reported any issues with these guys? (No)
No? Ok, motion in favor of renewing? Seconded?

Yes we have to do the annual PD permit also. Ridiculous the amount of permits and fee we have to pay a year.

[ArmsUnlimited]

I had to do this in Los Angeles city where it was just under $12,000 initial and $5,000 renewal every few years.

If you were in business before the zoning regulations were passed you were grandfathered in and don't have to follow the zoning regulations

[ugimports]

Just an update -- I put in a request to the planning commission to no longer be required to do periodic CUP reviews. I based my request on the fact that I'm required to renew my local PD firearms permit each year already and it would be my assumption PD wouldn't renew me if they felt there was an issue that city council would care about.

It got approved! No more CUP reviews for me!

[ASD1]

[Librarian]

Yay!

Local governments apparently can be sensible, sometimes.

[kendog4570]

Good for you.

[acespawnshop]

Good job. Just to chime into the conversation. Where we did not have to get a CUP here in West Covina I do have lots of experience with these for our other 'sister' pawn shops that are part of our family. City of Oceanside gave us the run around for about 1 year before they finally conceded to our CUP. The cost to do everything they wanted was around 50k to renovate the exterior of the building to meet their vision for the city. They made us retrofit the building at a cost that may be higher than what I said. As part of the CUP that store is not allowed to use the word PAWN, and they would not allow them to sell firearms even though there was a firearms store directly across the street. City of Yucapia gave us the business for landscaping and signage. County of San Bernardino was halfway decent, the girls in the office are good to deal with but can be picky on things. Moreno Valley made that store get a separate business license specifically for firearms, an extra shakedown each year in fees. Basically it always seems to come down to how much money can they squeeze out of you. Those CUP's are a pain in the rear and in my opinion are only there for the city/ county to collect more loot from us.

What did Ronald Reagan say? The 9 most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and here to help you"

It was actually pretty easy for us to get our FFL here. I made an appointment with the CLEO and where I didn't meet with the Chief I met with his guy who works on his behalf on stuff like this. It was pretty informal. Just a sit down, and a 10 minute conversation. Mostly about what guns he likes and the such. Once our FFL came in I literally walked into the city office with my current business license and she took out a stamp and put "valid retail sales firearms" on it and handed it back to me. I was out in less than 2 minutes. West Covina has been real easy to deal with.

Glad everything worked out for you.

[ugimports]

I'm happy that the process worked and that our local government was reasonable. While I haven't looked into the commissions staff too far, 1 or 2 of the 5 seemed less 2A friendly (but maybe not full Anti).

I agree that the CUP at least after the initial review seemed more about picking up fees at that point which is what gave me so much heartburn about it. Thank goodness it wasn't 50+k!

[acespawnshop]

Thank goodness it wasn't 50+k!

The 50Gs was the CUP and all the other crap they made us do down there. It was a disaster. They wanted interior design plans, architectural designs for outside of the building, historical usage of the property reported, retrofitting, they made us change the exterior plans to fit their idea of how the city should look, they cant advertise pawn or use pawn in the name of the business. All in all I'm not sure why after all this headache the powers that be for that store decided it was still a good idea and went for it. The store is technically a pawn shop, but since they cant advertise it nobody knows its there. Inside it looks more like a retail beach store that sells sunglasses and guitars and stuff. Bu the building looks good lol.

[ScottyXbones]

You should convince the mayor that $2k would be better spent on his re-election campaign

I don't see how any gun shop owner thinks they can operate in CA without getting involved in politics.