Is it legal? (Gun locks)

[JWHuey]

I just did a PPT recently & the FFL where we did the transfer forced me to buy a cable lock in order to complete the transaction. Even thought I said I did not want it & would never use it. I will be transporting the gun in a soft case, locked with my lock.

They said I must buy this lock or the transaction would not be legal.

Is this the shady business practice I suspect to make more profit off of a $35 max ppt, or is there some truth to this?

[Condorguns]

In short yes it's legal.

If the firearm did not come with a lock.

[Librarian]

Long answer here: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...es.2C_and_Laws

[dc2allday]

We don't have them what cha ma callers here in Texas

[CSACANNONEER]

Under Federal law, a FFL can not release a handgun without a lock accompanying it. That doesn't mean that you have to buy one from that FFL. You can bring an old one in to satisfy Federal law.

Under Ca state law, you either need to buy one within 30 days prior to picking up your gun (long guns included), fill out a safe affidavit or have a oem lock included in the purchase.

Many, if not most, FFLs in Ca don't understand that there are two separate laws in play and end up thinking that you have to satisfy both requirements with the same solution. So, they make you buy a lock.

[CSACANNONEER]

We don't have them what cha ma callers here in Texas

Texas FFLs don't follow Federal law?

[pacrat]

JWHuey asked

Is this the shady business practice I suspect to make more profit off of a $35 max ppt, or is there some truth to this?

As asked, it could be either. A full and concise answer, depends on the circumstances of the transfer. Some less than scrupulous FFLs, do lie to customers and practice "shady business practices" where locks are concerned.

Did you PPT a pistol or rifle? Do you own a safe?

[JWHuey]

As asked, it could be either. A full and concise answer, depends on the circumstances of the transfer. Some less than scrupulous FFLs, do lie to customers and practice "shady business practices" where locks are concerned.

Did you PPT a pistol or rifle? Do you own a safe?

Pistol. Yes, I own 2 safes.

What bugged me is that I told the guy I would be locking the gun in my case with MY lock, as the cable lock would not effectively secure the case. He acknowledged this fact & said I didn't have to use the lock, I just had to buy it...

[randomBytes]

I've had the same experience.
PPT pistol, I have a safe (and lots of those stupid useless locks),
FFL said I had to buy one or show receipt for one bought in last 30 days.

[pacrat]

Pistol. Yes, I own 2 safes.

What bugged me is that I told the guy I would be locking the gun in my case with MY lock, as the cable lock would not effectively secure the case. He acknowledged this fact & said I didn't have to use the lock, I just had to buy it...

If you own a gun safe. You are exempt from Ca-DOJ firearm lock requirements for both, long and handguns.

But you have to exercise that right by either presenting a reciept for the safe for the FFL to make a copy of. Or you can file a safe affidavit.
That satisfies any Ca-DOJ lock requirements

Your lockable gun case, meets Fed CSLA 2005 requirements. So would a reciept showing you own a safe. An affidavit is not accepted by ATF for Fed CSLA compliance.

[1] You can give the FFL the benefit of the doubt, and think he is ignorant of the laws he is required to know.

[2] Or you can believe he is a crook that knows the law, but chose to lie to you, so he could make a couple of extra bucks.



JM2c

[NATIONAL-ARMAMENT]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has yet to issue a regulation which recognizes 18 USC 921(a)(34)(C).
In practice, that means that California and Federal law are different on what is acceptable -- and safe for dealers to accept. For long guns, California FFLs may accept the safe affidavit; but for handguns, because BATFE has not yet ruled, the safe affidavit is NOT acceptable, and buyers may expect to purchase a gun lock with each handgun.
Anecdotal evidence at Calguns suggests that BATFE is in fact specifically refusing to accept the California safe affidavit. See this Calguns post for a reproduction of the letter BATF has sent.
BATFE enforcement of this appears problematical; there seems to be no record keeping requirement to establish the lock presence on delivery in Federal paperwork.

--From Calguns Foundation.

I either do the lock exchange, or offer customers refunds on the locks when they come back in. No complaints so far.

[Twiki357]

Texas FFLs don't follow Federal law?

[Jeep Guy]

I had an unnamed Local Gun Shop "sell" me a lock at no cost and then tell me I could choose to leave it on the counter when I left if I so desired...which I did. Everybody comes out ahead if they do this. I have stacks of unused cable locks at home.

[GOLDEN GUN]

My understanding is that in California, everything needs a lock or safe affidavit.

Under federal law, only handguns must acquire a lock either provided by factory or purchased within 30 days.

I allow my
Customers to donate a lock for $1 credit on their purchase and they must buy a lock from me for $1 with their handgun acquisition

[Librarian]

Under federal law, only handguns must acquire a lock either provided by factory or purchased within 30 days.

That's CA law. Feds say

unless the transferee is provided with a
secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in
section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

'Provided with' has long meant 'has', not 'must buy from the transferring FFL'.

I allow my
Customers to donate a lock for $1 credit on their purchase and they must buy a lock from me for $1 with their handgun acquisition

Works for me!