Guns must be unlocked during 10 day wait?

[Germz]

I recently did a PPT and as I went to lock up my firearm so the FFL could keep it and begin the 10 day wait, they told me that they have to be unlocked in case the ATF decides to come by and wants to physically see the firearm.
I wanted to lock it up to mitigate the ability of someone to "play" with it while it is being held, however they told me that I can't do that and it has to stay accessible to the dealer.

If there is damage or malfunction with the firearm upon picking it up. who is at fault and what would be my recourse?
To me that doesn't make sense, but if that is the case can one of you fine licensees please provide that law or regulation that states all firearms being held for the 10 day waiting period must be "unlocked".

thanks in advance!

[RZ Operations]

We must allow the ATF or CA DOJ to audit firearms if they show up. How would they do so if it is locked up and we don't have a way to open it?

[Germz]

I remember hearing about empowered firearms in vista that had like a bank vault or something and they could lock up guns during PPTs, which I then baselined my assumptions off of. I must be mistaken.

[Condorguns]

You can put a trigger lock on it if you want but you can't lock it in a container. The first thing DOJ or ATF does when they walk in is ask for all of your pending paperwork and you have to physically show the matching firearm.

If you don't trust your FFL take photos of your gun before you leave after filling out your paperwork.

[ASD1]

They need to be left unlocked in case of an audit be it from ATF, CA DOJ or anyone that has the authority to do it.

If you do not trust the FFL find a new one. Remember locks keep honest people honest

[Jeepergeo]

Sounds like you need to find another FFL, one you know and trust.

Worse than wear while waiting would be if the FFL goes under or files for Bankruptcy. Things get way delayed then, sometimes for many months before things can be relaleased.

[Germz]

You can put a trigger lock on it if you want but you can't lock it in a container. The first thing DOJ or ATF does when they walk in is ask for all of your pending paperwork and you have to physically show the matching firearm.

If you don't trust your FFL take photos of your gun before you leave after filling out your paperwork.

So does the firearm and/or serial number need to be visible or accessible? I have clear, lockable containers that allow every aspect of the gun that needs to be seen to...well, be seen.
this gun is going to be used and more or less abused but the way it was presented struck me as odd and makes me feel uneasy if I were to be on the buying end of a pretty expensive and/or rare firearm that it has the potential to be handled in my absence.

I mean if the serial number and/or firearm just needs to be visible, I'd have the seller put the gun in one of these and start the countdown when the dealer submits the paperwork.

[Baboosh]

We have had people ask if they can lock it up and we let them but also tell them the lock may be cut off if needed. If we, DOJ, ATF, shipper etc needs to verify serial we just cut it.

If you are worried about it find another FFL. Guns are handled while in lockup at times. It is just part of the business.

[Condorguns]

So does the firearm and/or serial number need to be visible or accessible? I have clear, lockable containers that allow every aspect of the gun that needs to be seen to...well, be seen.
this gun is going to be used and more or less abused but the way it was presented struck me as odd and makes me feel uneasy if I were to be on the buying end of a pretty expensive and/or rare firearm that it has the potential to be handled in my absence.

I mean if the serial number and/or firearm just needs to be visible, I'd have the seller put the gun in one of these and start the countdown when the dealer submits the paperwork.

Interesting question. If you were to bring this into my shop I guess I would let you use it. I would also inform you that if I need to I would cut the lock and remove the firearm.

I know some people want their guns locked away during the 10 day wait, but it's just not always possible. I know in my shop we don't take time out of our day to go back and randomly play with customers guns. I understand the gun is special to you, but to me it's a gun. I look at guns everyday...... Everyday.... For 30 years.... If I have free time I will be spending it on Calguns or playing Candy Crush. ��

[audiophil2]

There are some shady people in the business. I knew one dealer that used to take every extra part out of gun boxes before he shipped them. Rail covers, slings, stickers, hats, etc were all taken out. He never played with the guns though. How many times can a guy get excited over seeing a Glock 26?

Then there are some shady NFA dealers. It is amazing how parts go missing when a $14k MP40 or similar relic sits in a safe for 6-12 months. A customer would not even be able ot know if it was shot during the ATF wait.

My guns come out of the box for a few pictures and then get put away. Anything that has already had a picture taken does not leave the box unless I have to convert it. Inbound transfers on brand new guns don't even get opened until the transferee is here and then he takes it the same day.

[Bobshouse]

There are some shady people in the business. I knew one dealer that used to take every extra part out of gun boxes before he shipped them. Rail covers, slings, stickers, hats, etc were all taken out. He never played with the guns though. How many times can a guy get excited over seeing a Glock 26?

Then there are some shady NFA dealers. It is amazing how parts go missing when a $14k MP40 or similar relic sits in a safe for 6-12 months. A customer would not even be able ot know if it was shot during the ATF wait.

My guns come out of the box for a few pictures and then get put away. Anything that has already had a picture taken does not leave the box unless I have to convert it. Inbound transfers on brand new guns don't even get opened until the transferee is here and then he takes it the same day.

We allow the owner to take everything home with them except the serialized part. We allow locks on the firearm, but not on the container.

All containers must be opened as you are not allowed to enter the serial number from the box. It must be from the frame or receiver of the firearm. ATF finds out you don't open boxes to enter guns into your log and you have a chance of losing your FFL.

Must be nice in Arizona, but we are talking California here...lol

[audiophil2]

All containers must be opened as you are not allowed to enter the serial number from the box. It must be from the frame or receiver of the firearm. ATF finds out you don't open boxes to enter guns into your log and you have a chance of losing your FFL.

Must be nice in Arizona, but we are talking California here...lol

I don't allow anything to leave my shop until I sign off on the transfer. Getting stuff back after a denial is not that easy. I won't even let clients try out their NFA transfers because if they get denied how is the part returned now that it is used? I allow clients that buy my stuff to play with while in the stamp wait only because I can re sell the item as a demo product.

I guess every single distributor is doing it wrong then.
ATF has never had an issue with factory sealed boxes in my inventory.
I better go tell Cabelas and every other large FFL in the area they better open every gun box as soon as they arrive in the distribution warehouse and then again at each store. Thousands of FFLs will be losing their licenses I guess.

[Baboosh]

Guns must be unlocked during 10 day wait?

ATF has no issues with entering serial from boxes. We had plenty in our inventory on our last audit and they cut all of them open.

[Bobshouse]

I guess I can appeal that write up we received then! Thanks!

[kemasa]

There are several things which can be done. The keys could be put in a sealed envelope and opened if needed. Or the lock could be cut off, if needed, but the FFL might not want to go to the effort of cutting off of the lock.

The clear container might be interesting, but it also takes up more space.

The problem is that a FFL might not want to deal with all of the hassle. While there are some unethical FFLs, that does not mean that the ethical ones need to jump through hoops for you. Are you willing to pay extra for the extra service?

The end FFL should always personally verify the serial number on the firearm. I have received firearms in which the paperwork and the box did not match the firearm.