PPT of semi-auto AK pattern rifle with "fixed" mag?

[kilrain]

I met a guy at a local FFL today to PPT an AK pattern rifle that was equipped with a "bullet button" to ensure changing the magazine required a tool, making it a "fixed magazine." The sale included three, 10 round mags. Prior to entering the store, he gave me the mags, I put them in my car and we took the rifle, with no magazine in it, in to complete the transaction.

We completed all the necessary paperwork and I paid the $35 PPT fee. As I was walking out, one of the salesmen said they needed a 10 round magazine to put in the gun during the 10 day waiting period in case they were inspected by the DOJ because without the magazine, they couldn't "prove" that it had a 10 round "fixed magazine." While I thought it was strange, I of course obliged, retrieved a magazine from my car and inserted it in the gun.

As I was talking to the guy I bought it from, he said that was particularly odd as when he'd bought the rifle new, it came with NO magazines. It also seemed odd to me since I've been in many shops with AR/AK pattern rifles in their racks with NO mags in them....

So did I just run into an idiosyncratic employee or is there something to what he said? I don't mind complying with a simple request, I found it just a bit odd.

Thanks for any replies, I'm just curious.....

[JeffM]

There's a lot of myth, religion, superstition, and bad info that has become dogma to some people regarding guns. Be it .45 vs 9mm, AR vs AK, etc, etc, etc. The same thing applies to how guns are handled in CA.

The "no mag in the gun = somehow bad" idea has been around for a while. It is likely a holdover from when the DOJ's position was that the "capacity to accept" wording of the law made the Bullet Button(TM) and other magazine locking devices that locked automatically a grey area and that one of the 56 CA DA's could prosecute someone for having a gun with and open magazine well rather than keeping the magazine installed and top loading. The legal view of Bullet Button(TM) type magazine locks has become more firm over the last few years and it's common knowledge now that it's fine to swap 10rd magazines. That wasn't always the case. CGF played a big part of that with the pressure they placed on Law Enforcement agencies like Sacramento PD that ultimately adopted training guided by CGF and legitimized a lot of the "grey area" legal compliance methods we take for granted today.

We don't allow PPT guns without a magazine if there's a safe handling demo that needs to be done. That's it.

[NATEWA]

^ what Jeff said

I remember shooting my friends FAL with a welded in mag, creating a "fixed mag." His FAL was brought in and sold during those "early days" Jeff refers to. You had to load to mag from the top - a real PITA.

[kilrain]

There's a lot of myth, religion, superstition, and bad info that has become dogma to some people regarding guns. Be it .45 vs 9mm, AR vs AK, etc, etc, etc. The same thing applies to how guns are handled in CA.

The "no mag in the gun = somehow bad" idea has been around for a while. It is likely a holdover from when the DOJ's position was that the "capacity to accept" wording of the law made the Bullet Button(TM) and other magazine locking devices that locked automatically a grey area and that one of the 56 CA DA's could prosecute someone for having a gun with and open magazine well rather than keeping the magazine installed and top loading. The legal view of Bullet Button(TM) type magazine locks has become more firm over the last few years and it's common knowledge now that it's fine to swap 10rd magazines. That wasn't always the case. CGF played a big part of that with the pressure they placed on Law Enforcement agencies like Sacramento PD that ultimately adopted training guided by CGF and legitimized a lot of the "grey area" legal compliance methods we take for granted today.

We don't allow PPT guns without a magazine if there's a safe handling demo that needs to be done. That's it.

Interesting and strange. In this case, there was no safe handling demonstration required and as stated, I don't mind doing something that makes the FFL feel better. It just was.....odd.

Thanks for the info and your time to reply.