PPT question

[angelina]

So, today I sold a pistol. I met the buyer at a local gun store and we started to do the paperwork. There were two things that stood out during the PPT and seem weird.

The pistol being transferred is a Bersa Thunder .380. It has an internal lock that completely disables the pistol. When I did the transfer of this pistol three/four weeks ago, the gun store I transferred it at said I did not need to a) buy a lock from them or b) bring in a lock from home because the pistol itself has an internal lock and in the eyes of the state, that's fine. My DROS paperwork says "internal" or "internal lock" in the lock portion.
The gun store today told the buyer that he MUST buy a lock from them in order to do the PPT. It has to be a dated purchase, so he can't even bring one from home. I asked if its exempt because of the pistols internal lock, two employees said that the state of California does not recognize internal locks as being sufficient and the only way this was moving forward was if he purchased a $10 cable lock from them.
My question here is: how can that be true? I just DROS'd the gun and my paperwork states it has an internal lock. If California doesn't see that as being fit, why did my DROS complete and why was my firearm released to me without a lock? Who is wrong here?

The second thing: this particular gun store has a $95.00 fee if the DROS doesn't complete or anyone cancels it for any reasons. Meaning, if you get denied, the gun goes back to the seller. But seller has to pay $95.00 for the gun store to release it. They don't refund the $35.00 DROS of course. Can they do this?


I know the obvious "if you don't like what the store does, don't use them for PPT." So that input is unhelpful.

Thanks in advance!


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[keenkeen]

What shop?

[FX-05 Xiuhcoatl]

Sounds like Shooters Paradise Fud.

[ElDub1950]

Locks are always a sore point during a PPT. Some store allow you to bring your own. Some stores only allow you to buy one from them. I did a PPT yesterday and the LGS required the buyer to pay for the lock up front. Some don't care.

The $95 fee to the seller if the buyer doesn't get approved sounds like a rip off but it's something you need to ask ahead of time.

[Librarian]

(l) “FSD” means
a device that locks and is designed to prevent children and unauthorized users from firing a firearm.
The device may be installed on a firearm,
be incorporated into the design of a firearm, or
prevent access to the firearm.

(ETA - mistake deleted)

However, as usual, CA-DOJ is trying very hard to be uninformative. One might expect to see the Bersa Thunder internal lock on the list of approved devices for the Bersa Thunder, and it isn't there. Nor are there listings for Smith&Wesson revolvers that have the internal lock.

[CSACANNONEER]

I believe that the $95 charge is completely illegal. I sure don't see how it could be legal when the law clearly states that no other fees may be charged. Returning a firearm to the seller because the buyer did not pass DROS is still part of the PPT.

Locks are always a sore point during a PPT. Some store allow you to bring your own. Some stores only allow you to buy one from them. I did a PPT yesterday and the LGS required the buyer to pay for the lock up front. Some don't care.

The $95 fee to the seller if the buyer doesn't get approved sounds like a rip off but it's something you need to ask ahead of time.

Sounds like you got screwed by a bad FFL. A safe affidavit will comply with CA lock laws so, no receipt is required. Any lock will comply with Federal law so, a safe affidavit and bringing your own lock without a receipt is all that is legally required.

[GMG]

I believe that the $95 charge is completely illegal. I sure don't see how it could be legal when the law clearly states that no other fees may be charged. Returning a firearm to the seller because the buyer did not pass DROS is still part of the PPT.




Sounds like you got screwed by a bad FFL. A safe affidavit will comply with CA lock laws so, no receipt is required. Any lock will comply with Federal law so, a safe affidavit and bringing your own lock without a receipt is all that is legally required.

Most FFL's will not honor a safe affidavit on a hand gun, long guns yes.

[CSACANNONEER]

Most FFL's will not honor a safe affidavit on a hand gun, long guns yes.

That just goes to show that most FFLs are not capable of understanding the laws which govern their livelihoods.

[angelina]

I just think the whole thing was kind of crappy. I understand that gun stores would rather NOT do PPTs as it takes up room in their safe, their employees time, etc and all they get is $10 for it. However, in the interest of being pro-gun, you should appreciate that people are selling and buying. I typically buy a box of ammo or something in every gun store I PPT in. If the experience is good, I'll recommend the store or return at a later date and buy stuff from the store itself. I can order just about everything I want online for significantly less. I go to my LGSs to support them and in turn, support the firearm community.





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[ElDub1950]

I believe that the $95 charge is completely illegal. I sure don't see how it could be legal when the law clearly states that no other fees may be charged. Returning a firearm to the seller because the buyer did not pass DROS is still part of the PPT.




Sounds like you got screwed by a bad FFL. A safe affidavit will comply with CA lock laws so, no receipt is required. Any lock will comply with Federal law so, a safe affidavit and bringing your own lock without a receipt is all that is legally required.

They're probably dancing around the 'no other fees may be charged' by claiming it's not a PPT fee, it's a handling/storage fee. But I'd probably throw a fit like a little kid just to make a point.

[angelina]

Sounds like Shooters Paradise Fud.

In Ventura county. But a different city. East VentCo


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[acespawnshop]

You didn't have to buy a DOJ approved lock from them. You could have purchased one anywhere within the last 30 days and brought it with you for the PPT along with the receipt and that would have worked.

[ugimports]

They're probably dancing around the 'no other fees may be charged' by claiming it's not a PPT fee, it's a handling/storage fee. But I'd probably throw a fit like a little kid just to make a point.

Interesting thing is during a failed PPT (buyer denied vs cancels) the LGS is required by law to either return to seller or return to PD. I would call the DOJ and let them know the FFL is requiring a fee to release the firearm in order to complete the PPT transaction.

[liberty47]

Im the one who bought the gun from Angelina and have recently posted threads asking these same questions.

It was a really bad vibe in that store too. The guy made me look him and the eyes and explained to me that if I was lying or buying the gun for someone else I would go to jail for 10 years. Made me look him in the eyes and say "I understand." Never in my life have I felt the way I did walking out of the store yesterday.

I was even contemplating having some sights put on a G21 there but I will never spend a dime in there.

I would recommend Oak Tree and Turner's before going back to the that FFL.

[killemall419]

I believe federal law requires a lock for a handgun, regardless of a safe affidavit