Safe Affidavit Receipt Required

[ugimports]

I was just re-reading this today and am I reading it correctly that if the person has a Stack-On or Sentry Cabinet that is on the DOJ list and they fill out the bottom of the form that a receipt is required? But if they have a safe and they initial in the box in the middle of the screen then a receipt is NOT required?

Or can the box in the middle of the page be used for the DOJ approved cabinets as well?

Most of my customers have safes, but some have the gun cabinets and I just realized now it's asking for receipts.

Has anyone that did NOT collect receipts for gun cabinets been written up during audit? Seems unreasonable that it's acceptable for safe guys to not have their original receipt, but cabinet guys get screwed despite following the law.

[acespawnshop]

Ive never had somebody with a cabinet. This is interesting. Who keeps receipts from their purchases anyhow?

[5thgen4runner]

I have always put my stack on as my safe. Never been asked anything.

[ugimports]

I have always put my stack on as my safe. Never been asked anything.

If yours is actually a safe that's fine. I'm referring to this style:

https://www.stack-on.com/categories/security-cabinets-gun-cabinets

[readysetgo]

Quoting from another thread that contains my best explanation from a user standpoint but should be useful for ffl too:

You're mixing up #1 and #2.

It's either or NOT 1 AND 2. eta: Actually it could be 1 and 2 but that's not required.

The type of safe you're speaking of without UL RSC certification would fall under #2. If it meets the requirements in (a) - (e), then you sign and date and all is well.

eta: Here's the docs so readers have a visual of what we're talking about.

Affidavit Stating Ownership of a Gun Safe or Lock Box (BOF Form 978)



There are actually three distinct "exemptions" working here with four possible choices/outcomes. There's a couple of qualifications for each.

You can select box #1. The qualifications are: UL RSC cert, fully contains firearms and provides for their secure storage.

You can select box #2. Must meet ALL of the criteria in section (a) - (e). Some examples, fully contains firearms and provides for their secure storage, locking system, boltwork, door hinges and wall thickness characteristics as described.

You could select both box #1 and #2. All of the characteristics of both sections above.

You could select DOJ Certified Lock Box. Here it must be "Certified by DOJ" and you MUST have a receipt for said lock box.
- You can search for lock boxes here: ROSTER OF FIREARM SAFETY DEVICES CERTIFIED FOR SALE

Also note, because of federal law this affidavit does NOT exempt you from requirements for a "lock" when purchasing a handgun. (see Librarians more appropriate explanation) Basically, you can't use this affidavit for handguns.

A refinement: because of BATF intransigence in failing to provide a regulation that recognizes that a safe meets the black-letter Federal law satisfying the "secure gun storage or safety device" requirement of federal law this affidavit does NOT exempt you from requirements for a "lock" when purchasing a handgun.

So more specifically:

I was just re-reading this today and am I reading it correctly that if the person has a Stack-On or Sentry Cabinet DOJ-Certified Lock Box that is on the DOJ list and they fill out the bottom of the form that a receipt is required?

Yes. [correction in bold] Also, see notice to FFL's on the form, specific to the second type of affidavit, spelling out receipt requirement "Firearm dealer: This affidavit is only valid when accompanied by a receipt.)"

But if they have a safe (that meets the (Make) (Model) standards set forth under California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 4100, of the California Code of Regulations) and they initial in the box in the middle of the screen then a receipt is NOT required?

Correct. Using the first affadavit, without a receipt, they will initial the grey section that states "This section is to be used when a receipt for the gun safe is not available. I own and possess the gun safe referenced above." [addition in bold]

Or can the box in the middle of the page be used for the DOJ approved cabinets as well?

No. The two sections are distinctly separate even though it's all on one page.


IANAL, IANAFFL, your own risk etc etc.

[ugimports]

Yeah, that's what I thought...which means for customers that have a gun cabinet (such as the examples I provided) which are clearly on the CA DOJ list it's useless UNLESS the bring in their receipt for it..

fricken lame..

[kemasa]

Yes, they need to bring in the receipt. Also, if it is not bolted down, they have to bring it in. Look at what they are signing.

[ugimports]

Yes, they need to bring in the receipt. Also, if it is not bolted down, they have to bring it in. Look at what they are signing.

Re-read..it says "OR too large/heavy to present:.. doesn't have to be bolted down.

I would say most cabinets are too large to present. I think that statement is for those folks that have small handgun lock boxes that are on the list which are small enough to bring in.

The receipt requirement is lame though... I really don't understand why a receipt is required for that, but not a safe..

[kemasa]

It is the government, it does not have to make sense.

[Lives_In_Fresno]

Keep in mind that the safe affidavit is only good to satisfy the CA requirement. The feds still require that a lock be provided when a handgun is transferred (through an FFL, at least).

[ugimports]

Keep in mind that the safe affidavit is only good to satisfy the CA requirement. The feds still require that a lock be provided when a handgun is transferred (through an FFL, at least).

Correct - and the lock for the feds does not have to be a CA Approved Lock.

[ripro75]

So much easier to just deal with locks, I give them away for free to be included in the sale/transfer. I have done a lock exchange for the last 5 years where customers bring in their locks in exchange for a new one. So for every gun that leaves my shop, a lock is always included. I have had numerous customers bring in bags of locks to continue the cycle.

[kemasa]

Correct - and the lock for the feds does not have to be a CA Approved Lock.

But CA has an issue with non-certified locks. I recall something about non-certified locks being allowed in the CA PC.

[ugimports]

But CA has an issue with non-certified locks. I recall something about non-certified locks being allowed in the CA PC.

Right, I've had guys come in with a non-approved lock, but they had a safe. So I had them sign the safe affidavit to satisfy the state requirement and let them go since they satisfied the fed requirement.

The state part was that you need to remove non-certified locks, but if I am using the safe affidavit to satisfy the "lock" requirement I don't see why they can't keep their own property vs me snatching it out of their hands

[ugimports]

So much easier to just deal with locks, I give them away for free to be included in the sale/transfer. I have done a lock exchange for the last 5 years where customers bring in their locks in exchange for a new one. So for every gun that leaves my shop, a lock is always included. I have had numerous customers bring in bags of locks to continue the cycle.

We do this probably 90% of the time, but sometimes we run low since we're not a retail shop getting the freebies replenished isn't as easy.