Question on Out of State Transfer Fees

[caliberetta]

Greetings Calguns FFL Forum:

I have a question on an incoming out of state transfer for a used gun, which I'm doing for the first time this week.

A nearby FFL has a sign in the store that says Transfer Fees: $25.

$25 is lower than the other FFL's in my area, and for this reason I selected them to receive my incoming firearm.

Their procedure required me to complete a Transfer form to start the process, which they would send to the out-of-state FFL. On the spot, I was required to pay $60, which surprised me in a couple of ways:

Question 1: Is it typical practice for the FFL to charge fees Up Front, and not when the firearm is received and DROS actually started?

Question 2: My understanding is that I would pay $25 Transfer Fee + $25 DROS. The FFL stated that this was incorrect, and that the DROS was $35, and after I mentioned that DROS was only supposed to be a maximum of $25, they clarified as follows:

$25 DROS
$10 Processing Fee
$25 Transfer Fee
TOTAL: $60

Is it common practice to charge an additional Processing fee on top of the Transfer Fee?

While the $10 is not a lot of money, I just think that they should probably clarify to customers that their transfer fee (which presumably should include their "processing fee") is actually $35.

What say you guys? Any insight is most appreciated.

[Condorguns]

Dealers can charge whatever they want on out of state dealer transfer. As long as they don't try and pass off more than $25 as DROS fees.

I personally don't charge any fees until the gun is here and paperwork started.

[caliberetta]

^^ Thanks.

Despite having collected $60 from me up front, it is now 3 days later and the FFL has not sent out the Transfer Form to the out-of-state FFL. My Seller is at the FFL unable to send the firearm.

I called my FFL this afternoon at about 3, and asked them if they had sent the transfer form yet. Their actual response:

"We'll send it out today or tomorrow."

I told them I paid them all these fees up front and I expect that they send the form at least by today.

"We can't, there's 500 guns in front of you."

[kemasa]

It sounds like they are violating the law if they actually said that the DROS was $35. It is not common, at least that I am aware of, to get money in advance of the firearm arriving.

To be honest, what you said seems to be a warning sign of what it is like to do business with that place. Personally, I would go to another place even if it cost more as it does not seem honest to claim that it is $25, when in reality it is higher. I also have to wonder if they are collecting/paying the required sales tax. If not, that could really cost them in the end.

[kemasa]

Did you pay in cash or a credit card? If a credit card, I would dispute the charges. You now learned why they get the money in advance.

[zinfull]

For the price of the transfer you are getting it cheap. Just notify your seller that it takes time due to Ca laws and FFLs.

[kemasa]

No, don't spread FALSE statements. It has NOTHING to do with CA laws, nor FFLs, just that one FFL.

[Condorguns]

^^ Thanks.

Despite having collected $60 from me up front, it is now 3 days later and the FFL has not sent out the Transfer Form to the out-of-state FFL. My Seller is at the FFL unable to send the firearm.

I called my FFL this afternoon at about 3, and asked them if they had sent the transfer form yet. Their actual response:

"We'll send it out today or tomorrow."

I told them I paid them all these fees up front and I expect that they send the form at least by today.

"We can't, there's 500 guns in front of you."

Ouch.... Yeah that doesn't sound good. If you were closer to me I would be happy to help you out. Our total charge is $69 and we don't accept payment up front. I prefer to have customers inspect the order and get paperwork started before we collect.

I hope it works out for you without too much delay.

[ugimports]

Ouch.... Yeah that doesn't sound good. If you were closer to me I would be happy to help you out. Our total charge is $69 and we don't accept payment up front. I prefer to have customers inspect the order and get paperwork started before we collect.

I hope it works out for you without too much delay.

Just curious -- $69 is an odd number other than the *other* connotation it has - what's your breakdown? Ours is $75 ($50 transfer, $25 DROS).

[zinfull]

No, don't spread FALSE statements. It has NOTHING to do with CA laws, nor FFLs, just that one FFL.

I will standby my statement. Because of all the laws and requirements that Ca has for firearms which includes DROS there are many FFLs that hassle you and/or refuse to provide the service as required. That with FFLs begging able to charge what ever they want for out of state transfers adds a load on the FFLs that are customer friendly thus causing the delays.

[caliberetta]

Ok, it looks like my FFL had finally sent that Fax to its out-of-state counterpart.

It took them 4 days. I'm not happy that they took their sweet time to send a single fax. It takes 2 minutes to send a Fax.

I would think that sending the Transfer Form within 24 hours is a reasonable expectation considering the up-front collection of a $35 Fee.

Unless I'm going to hear a positive response from the owner, whom I will be contacting today, it's not likely I will ever use them again, and surely will be taking down a 5-Star Yelp review I wrote for their Shooting Range last year (I am an Elite Yelp user, so for sure my reviews have helped them). I am a frequent visitor of their range (3-4 times per month in the last year) and have contributed to their revenue twice as much as a member would. I will also begin favoring other gun ranges.

I'm just not happy at the way they treated my Transfer request, particularly the snide "there are 500 guns in front of you" remark, given all the above facts.

[kemasa]

I will standby my statement. Because of all the laws and requirements that Ca has for firearms which includes DROS there are many FFLs that hassle you and/or refuse to provide the service as required. That with FFLs begging able to charge what ever they want for out of state transfers adds a load on the FFLs that are customer friendly thus causing the delays.

Sending a FFL is the same for ALL FFLs. The DROS only is an issue when the firearm is transferred and does not explain the delay in sending their FFL. It is unusual for a FFL to charge in advance, so that tends to single out that FFL, not ALL CA FFLs.

The bottom line is that you have no idea of why there was a delay, so to blame CA laws is just bogus. Saying such things also makes ALL CA FFLs look bad, which is just not the case.

FFLs can be emailed, so it can be send within a very short period of time.

[caliberetta]

FFLs can be emailed, so it can be send within a very short period of time.

I would think so, too. When I spoke with them yesterday, I offered an email address for the counter-FFL, which I had just gotten.

The staffer was quick to want to get me off the phone and did not want the email address. He said they would just need it if there was a problem with the fax, and that it would go out "maybe today or tomorrow, there's 500 guns in front of you, we can't put you ahead of all those." No apologies.

[ugimports]

That's crazy busy -- 500 inbound transfers in their queue! Still it does only take a few mins especially when they had you come in and fill out the form presumably with everything they needed to send their info out. Some shops are old school..at least he's using a fax machine.. I've heard of FFLs that still ask for copies via US Postal Mail... many FFLs don't use email still which is sad..

[kemasa]

There is a SERIOUS issue if they have 500 FFLs to send out. Consider how long that would take to accumulate that and you would think that they would figure out a way to send it out quicker, or that is just a lie to give them an excuse as to why they are slow.