Do you consider yourself a Protestant or not?(Non-Catholic)

[WASR10]

The church existed for 400-600 years before the RCC fully matured. Some people, such as myself, practice Christianity as the church did in the first century. That is where the term Non-Catholic, Non-Protestant comes from.

Sent from my tappy device thingy

[The War Wagon]

The church existed for 400-600 years before the RCC fully matured. Some people, such as myself, practice Christianity as the church did in the first century. That is where the term Non-Catholic, Non-Protestant comes from.

Then ALL the Orthodox, as well as the Coptic & Syriac Churches should fall under that umbrella, no?

[WASR10]

Then ALL the Orthodox, as well as the Coptic & Syriac Churches should fall under that umbrella, no?

Well, its been a few years since I've studied my church history so I am fuzzy on the details and reluctant to state with any certainty, but I believe the Orthodox churches came from the same vein as the Catholic, and almost concurrent. So I wouldn't consider them to be pre-Catholic - yet by definition they are non-Catholic, non-Protestant. I would assume any division that preceded the RCC could be considered non-Catholic, non-Protestant.

[The War Wagon]

Technically, WE (Lutherans) pre-date the ROMAN Catholic Church, which is a post-Council of Trent (1563) development. They were simply "the western Church" before that.

[Doheny]

If you love Jesus, we're all on the same team. That's what my pastor, Rick Warren says (I'm with him.)



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[RAMCLAP]

Technically there are only three camps. Gnostic, Arian(Followers of Arias) and Orthodox. If you and your church hold to the Nicene, and Apsostle's Creeds then you are Orthodox. If you are Protestant then you are either Anglican, Reformed, or Lutheran. These were formed in the Reformation otherwise known as Protestant because they were "protesting" the church at Rome. Baptists, Friends, Methodists et al are not technically Protestant because they came after the Reformation.

[The War Wagon]

Technically there are only three camps. Gnostic, Arian(Followers of Arias) and Orthodox. If you and your church hold to the Nicene, and Apsostle's Creeds then you are Orthodox.

Because I'm a stickler on such things, I prefer using the small "o" in agreeing with your point. JUST to keep from confusing the issue with the Church of Constantinople.

If you are Protestant then you are either Anglican, Reformed, or Lutheran. These were formed in the Reformation otherwise known as Protestant because they were "protesting" the church at Rome. Baptists, Friends, Methodists et al are not technically Protestant because they came after the Reformation.

Now I wonder how the Anabaptists (Old Order Mennonites) classify themselves? Luther was differing with the Church of Rome in 1517 (The 95 Theses), but by the time of the Presentation of the Augsburg Confession (June, 1530), we're having to differentiate ourselves from the Anabaptists on almost every point - just so there's no confusion to Rome!

Since they pre-date the Council of Trent, I wonder what their thoughts are on the who "Protest" issue...

[RAMCLAP]

Because I'm a stickler on such things, I prefer using the small "o" in agreeing with your point. JUST to keep from confusing the issue with the Church of Constantinople.

I have no issue with that.

Now I wonder how the Anabaptists (Old Order Mennonites) classify themselves? Luther was differing with the Church of Rome in 1517 (The 95 Theses), but by the time of the Presentation of the Augsburg Confession (June, 1530), we're having to differentiate ourselves from the Anabaptists on almost every point - just so there's no confusion to Rome!

Since they pre-date the Council of Trent, I wonder what their thoughts are on the who "Protest" issue...

There were also the Hussites and several other pre-Lutheran sects that had issues with Rome. However, I cannot remember any of them trying to separate themselves or even reform Rome. They were assuming to be accepted in the manner of the Augustinians, and Dominicans etc. Instead Rome slaughtered them. Luther realizing this was going to happen to him as well, had no choice but to separate or die. Hence, the princes of northern Germany separated and the Reformation was on.

[Decoligny]

What constitutes a "non Protestant Christian"? I have never heard that term before.
I belong a non main stream Protestant religion, which some consider to be a cult(or almost a cult) and thought they all boiled down to Protestant and Catholic.

Looking at the concept of Catholic and Protestant requires that you understant what a Protestant actually is. A Protestant is a member of any of the sects that broke away from the Catholic Church in PROTEST to the unscriptural practices of the Catholic Church. (See Martin Luther).

There has always been a group of people who held to what they claim to be the original practices of the early Church, and did not submit to the overwhelming power of the Catholic Church. This group was persecuted by the Catholic Church throughout the history of the Catholic Church.

The basic foundational beliefs of these people are pretty much what the "Protestants" took as their foundational beliefs.

The major difference was in their methods and their end goals.

The Protestants were looking to "reform" the Catholic Church (Protestant Reformation) which was a highly political entity. They set themselves against the Catholic Church.

Those who had adhered to their understanding of the original practices of the the early Church simply understood that the entire issue was a personal one, and not one where the Government (Church/State) could hold sway.

[Decoligny]

Technically, WE (Lutherans) pre-date the ROMAN Catholic Church, which is a post-Council of Trent (1563) development. They were simply "the western Church" before that.

That is simply a distinction without a difference. Like saying that Exxon didn't exist as a company until 1972 when they changed their name from Esso (S. O. for Standard Oil). Same Company, different name. Same Church, different name.

[WizeWizard]

I was raised Roman Catholic. Catholic school. All that.

Martin Luther was right.

So much about the Catholic Church I disagree with. No longer actively participating. Dad is a deacon.

[Decoligny]

If you love Jesus, we're all on the same team. That's what my pastor, Rick Warren says (I'm with him.)



.

It seems that you and I are constantly on opposite sides in regards to our world views.

It is my belief that the "Gospel" preached by Rick Warren is not the Gospel at all.

Here is an excerpt from an in depth article I wrote concerning the "teachings" of Rick Warren and Saddleback Church.


Galatians 1 : 6-9 : I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the Grace of Christ unto another gospel; Which is not another ; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so I say now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

2 Corinthians 11 : 3-4 : But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

Both 2nd Corinthians and Galatians warn of “another gospel”, and “another Jesus”.

In the “40 Days of Purpose” video tape with goes along with the “The Purpose Driven Life” Rick Warren has people pray a prayer at the end of the first session that goes like this: "Dear God, I want to know your purpose for my life. I don't want to base the rest of my life on wrong things. I want to take the first step in preparing for eternity by getting to know you. Jesus Christ, I don't understand how but as much as I know how I want to open up my life to you. Make yourself real to me. And use this series in my life to help me know what you made me for."

Then Rick Warren goes on to say: "Now if you've just prayed that prayer for the very first time I want to congratulate you. You've just become a part of the family of God."

In Rick Warren’s “The Purpose Driven Life” he invites people to do the following:
“First, believe. Believe God loves you and made you for his purposes. Believe you’re not an accident. Believer you were made to last forever. Believe God has chosen you to have a relationship with Jesus, who died on the cross for you. Believe that no matter what you’ve done, God wants to forgive you.”
“Second, receive. Receive Jesus into your life as Lord and Savior. Receive his forgiveness for your sins. Receive his Spirit, who will give you the power to fulfill your life purpose. Wherever you are reading this., I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: ‘Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.’ Go ahead, “If you sincerely meant that prayer congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!” (Pages 58 and 59)

At the point in the book where these prayers are introduced, there has been very little spoken about the gospel; a mention here and there about Jesus, but nothing nearly sufficient to be called “the gospel of Christ”.

Both of these prayers are lacking one thing, the gospel of Christ. Prior to the prayers there is no mention of the righteousness of God; the wrath of God; hell, repentance, the crucifixion, the resurrection, no mention of the Biblical Jesus at all. Romans 10:13-14 has been ignored. They haven’t believed, because they haven’t heard. The gospel of Christ wasn’t heard because it wasn’t preached.

Then there is “The Salvation Message” from Saddleback Church website: “Our disobedient nature has eternally separated us from our Creator. No matter how hard we try, we can never earn our way back into God’s presence. Our only hope is to trust Jesus as God’s provision for our disobedience. Whenever you make that decision, you step into the eternal and abundant life Jesus promises for all believers.”

Where is the gospel of Christ? Jesus name is mentioned, but where is the gospel? Disobedient nature has replaced SIN, because it is less offensive. Trusting Jesus makes us believers? What happened to “confess with your mouth” and “believe with your heart”? The believe part can’t happen unless the gospel of Christ has been heard.

The Bible’s version of the gospel of Christ shows:
All men were born in sin through the original sin of Adam and Eve, conned by the Serpent.
Man is separated from God and can have no relationship with God through any effort of his own.
All men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.
The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness. Thus the fear of God is known, and it is the beginning of wisdom.
God required a perfect sinless sacrifice to pay the price for the debt of sin and to reconcile man to God.
God loved the world so much he gave his only begotten Son, Jesus, so whoever believes in him shouldn’t perish but have eternal life.
Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. In him dwelled the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus lived a sinless life. Jesus was crucified to become the sinless sacrifice; he took our sins upon himself on the cross at Calvary.
Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, ascended to heaven, and sits at the right hand of God.

We must believe that Jesus is who the Bible says he is, and he did what it says he did, and he freely paid the price for salvation, he offers it freely to us, we don’t deserve it, we can’t earn it, we can’t buy it, it is given through grace to those who in faith call upon his name, the name above all names. There is no other name by which man can be saved.

Paul warned the Corinthians against ANYONE coming with another Jesus, another spirit, or another gospel.

Any “Jesus” that you can just open your life to, without having heard the gospel of Christ; without the knowledge of God’s righteousness and His wrath; without conviction of sin; without the knowledge of Christ’s death on the cross as a sacrifice for our sin; his resurrection; or repentance; is not the Jesus of the Bible. This is “another Jesus, whom we have not preached”.


Galatians 1 : 10 : For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Psalm 127 : 1b : Except the LORD build the house, they labor in vain that build it:

If Paul had seen today’s Seeker Friendly churches, with their use of polls, questionnaires, surveys, occult based psychological profiles, the world’s marketing consultant firms, and the myriad of other worldly methods designed to please “Seekers” (men) so they will be comfortable, remain unoffended, and become “Christianized” (i.e. learn to look, act, and talk like Christians, without really changing), and keep coming to church, he would probably have written “The Epistle to the Church of Self-Esteem”. He would have used similar words to what he said to the Galatians to condemn to “Seeker Friendly”, “Market Researched”, “Customer Satisfaction”, “Man Pleasing”, “Church Growth Movement” churches built by man’s hands, not by the Lord‘s. He would have proclaimed them “accursed”.

Isaiah 8 : 14 : Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and [let] him [be] your fear, and [let] him [be] your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem

Romans 9 : 33 : As it is written, Behold I lay in Sion a stumbling stone, and a rock of offence; and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

To sinners, Jesus is offensive. The preaching of the gospel of Christ gets right in our face and confronts us with the fact that without Jesus, we are lost and are going to be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

The song “Amazing Grace” say it perfectly….”Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a WRETCH like me”. Seeker Friendly churches would never refer to any unsaved person as a “wretch” from their pulpits. They don’t even refer to them as “sinners” anymore. The “Seekers” might be offended and not come back.

Salvation is not a long gradual transition process of moving gently and sweetly from the “World” into the “Family of God”. Jesus described it as being “born again”.

Natural birth is a bloody, messy, offensive, painful event, but it results in a new life. Likewise, spiritual birth, Salvation, is a painful, offensive, often traumatic realization of your lost and sinful state, combined with the realization of God’s Righteousness, His boundless love for you, and His provision in Jesus Christ as the way to Salvation. Salvation, being “born again” results in a NEW LIFE…not a paradigm shift.

[hasserl]

Technically there are only three camps. Gnostic, Arian(Followers of Arias) and Orthodox. If you and your church hold to the Nicene, and Apsostle's Creeds then you are Orthodox. If you are Protestant then you are either Anglican, Reformed, or Lutheran. These were formed in the Reformation otherwise known as Protestant because they were "protesting" the church at Rome. Baptists, Friends, Methodists et al are not technically Protestant because they came after the Reformation.

There were also the Hussites and several other pre-Lutheran sects that had issues with Rome. However, I cannot remember any of them trying to separate themselves or even reform Rome. They were assuming to be accepted in the manner of the Augustinians, and Dominicans etc. Instead Rome slaughtered them. Luther realizing this was going to happen to him as well, had no choice but to separate or die. Hence, the princes of northern Germany separated and the Reformation was on.

My understanding is that Luther and his fellow reformers never wanted or intended to leave Rome, they were excommunicated. The early Lutheran reformers didn't call themselves Lutheran, that was a pejorative put onto them by the papists that stuck. The called themselves Evangelical Catholics.

[stoeger562]

Catholic Christian

[American Samurai]

Excellent assessment Decoligny; unfortunately many people do not heed the Apostle Paul's admonition for "sound doctrine". They're happy with the saccharine and syrupy and emotionalism.