The Millennium - 1,000 Year Reign of Jesus Christ!

[Barang]

so after the 1,000 years God allows Satan to rule for 1,000 years right?

No, after a thousand years satan will be let loose and he will gather all his followers and battle against Jesus and His followers.

[Just Dave]

You should know that I will most definitely respond to the belief in a pre-tribulation, dispensational, millennial, march on the Jesus camp view! I certainly would agree with you that the millennium would be grand if I held to this view. By the way, I was raised in the pre-tribulation, dispensational, millennial, march on the Jesus camp view. However, there are major problems with the pre-trib, millennial view that must be reconciled.

Pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib views believe that during this 1000 year reign of Christ that humans will experience life spans that go from 70+ to 1000+ years old. Why would life spans matter in the context of being a believer; if one who is a believer necessarily holds eternal life? It's just a noted change,nothing to get excited about If this 1000 year reign of Christ is future, why didn’t Jesus Himself ever mention this 1000 year reign? According to tribulation teaching, death happens during and at the end of the millennium. Why does the Scripture teach (1 Corinthians 15) that death ceases at the resurrection of the righteous and the return of Jesus?
Not everyone who enters in the 1000 year reign will be in a resurrected state. Believers who receive Christ and survive the tribulation will enter into the 1000 years in their still fallen state, they will also give birth during this time period with their offspring still predisposed to sin.

Additionally, 1 Corinthians 15:50 specifically communicates that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…” Considering this, how can the un-redeemed or the saved ones that make it through the tribulation enter into the “kingdom” age; without being changed from mortal to immortal? The unredeemed don't make it in, they get separated (Rev. 20:4-5). To enter the kingdom of God you have to be a believer and the 1000yr reign is an earthly kingdom that will only last 1000 years
Christ also communicated to His disciples that there was coming a DAY that all who are in the graves will hear His voice. Some will rise to eternal life and the rest to eternal damnation (John 5:28). Jesus never taught that the resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the un-righteous are separated by 1000 years. This is the white throne of judgement, after 1000 years. The righteous will live along time but will also die during the 1000 years

There are many problems that come with the belief of tribulational thought. These questions are only but a few. Many more could be asked. This idea of futurism/ dispensationalism was founded by John Nelson Darby in the early 1800s. Before his idea on futurism/dispensationalism, the prevailing thought in the Christian church was historic-pre millennialism.

I would argue that the 1000 year time referenced by Revelation is expressing quality of life and not quantity of life. In addition, a careful reading of Revelation 20 seems to communicate that the ones, in dispensational thought, were BE-HEADED for the testimony of Jesus AND (conjunction) had not received the mark on their forehead or hand (Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament). These are the ones that seem to have come to life (only the ones that meet the criteria) for 1000 years.

God bless,
Lineman101

Answers in bold

I think one major point that you may be missing is the fact that some believers (those who gave their lives to Christ during the tribulation) are going to survive the tribulation and enter into the 1000yr in their original fallen state. They will live and have kids just like we do today and their kids will also be born into that fallen state i.e. sin nature.
This is why Satan will be unleashed at the end of the reign because God is going to give those offspring a choice to follow Him or not and has you can see even with a perfect government (Christ leading) fallen humans when given the chance will still blow it.

[Lineman101]

[Just Dave]

I don’t believe that I am missing the point. Futurist/Dispensationalist generally believe that those that are not raptured prior to the start of the tribulation will have the chance to be redeemed after the rapture. However, 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12 speaks to this idea: 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (ESV). I might point out that verse 11 communicates ALL and not some.
All who will perish v.10. Not everyone is going to perish. Remember when the son of predation is revealed he will be standing where he ought not and declaring that he is something that he isn't
This begins the second half to the tribulation, however there have already been people giving their lives to Christ during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation.

It is also generally taught by Futurist/Dispensationalist that the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth to unveil the anti-Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:3). Considering this, how can 144,000 Jewish men be saved; how can the supposed converts be saved? For we know that it is only by the work of the Holy Spirit that one can be brought to salvation. These two ideas are in contention with one another. I also still argue that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. As Jesus is God, any kingdom with Jesus ruling is the kingdom of God. In addition, Christian teaching is that the kingdom of God will be established on the earth (Revelation 21). So there is no distinction between an earthly future kingdom and the kingdom of Christ/God. Jesus also told the religious leaders that the kingdom of God was in their midst (Luke 11:20).
The restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit ceases but the salvation ministry of the Holy Spirit continues, I never heard it taught or seen it backed by Scripture that the Holy Spirit is removed.

The kingdom mentioned it Rev. 21:1 is the new heaven and new earth, The old one (1000 yr reign) is passed away

Also, considering Futurist/Dispensational teaching, when will those that are found righteous during the 1000 year time be changed? To argue at the end of the 1000 year time is adding to the Scripture that just isn’t there. There are no Scriptures that support the changing of mortal to immortal anytime during a supposed 1000 year reign.
Rev 21:1, the old is removed and the new is introduced. There is also a resurrection of the righteous Rev 20:4-6 during the 1000 years

I also argue that Christ delivers the kingdom to God (1 Corinthians 15:24). In order to deliver something, you must possess something to deliver. Christ must have possession of the kingdom prior to this time. This also argues against the idea of different kingdoms.
There is only one Kingdom of God, there is no contradiction. When a person gives their life to Christ they enter that kingdom, this comes into full realization when we go to be in his presence physically. As a matter of fact some have argued that the kingdom of God is where ever Jesus is but I digress.

To sum it up, I reject that the Scripture teaches a 7 year tribulation period. This idea is commonly argued by Daniel 9 in Futurist/Dispensational teaching. However, Daniel 9 can be shown to refer to Antiochus Epiphanies and much more could be said about that. Lastly, Jesus pointed to the past to communicate what would happen in the near future. He told His disciples that the generation at that time would live to see the fulfillment of Matthew 25. Jesus was not speaking to a group of people some 2000+ years in the future.
"This generation" is referring to the tribulation generation referencing back to verse Matt 24:29 and keeping in context.
It will a short period and only one generation will see it.
If you walk it back from verse 34 you will see in verse 30 He declares His second coming and in verse 29 He mentions the tribulation. That's why He says "this generation will by no means pass until all these things take place".
Well what things is He talking about in verse 34?
Obviously the things He just mentioned in those prior verses

The Bible was written concerning those at Christ’s time. We have the blessing to see how Jesus responded to the people and how He loved the people around Him. By this, we can know who Jesus is.

God bless,
Lineman101

Eschatology, gotta love it. I have to confess though I'm not as well studied as I once was, I really enjoyed this refresher

God Bless.

[Barang]

Yes, there will be believers and new converts after the rapture but to those who reject the truth and follow 666 are condemned.

It is also generally taught by Futurist/Dispensationalist that the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth to unveil the anti-Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:3). Considering this, how can 144,000 Jewish men be saved; how can the supposed converts be saved? For we know that it is only by the work of the Holy Spirit that one can be brought to salvation. These two ideas are in contention with one another. I also still argue that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. As Jesus is God, any kingdom with Jesus ruling is the kingdom of God. In addition, Christian teaching is that the kingdom of God will be established on the earth (Revelation 21). So there is no distinction between an earthly future kingdom and the kingdom of Christ/God. Jesus also told the religious leaders that the kingdom of God was in their midst (Luke 11:20).

Remember the Two Witnesses, God gave them power to prophesy for 1,260 days. If anyone wans to harm them, a fire from their mouth will devour their enemies. God knows how to save those who seek Him like the 144,000.



It doesn't, only the raptured ones are transformed to immortality. The people who will be in the millennium are still in their mortal bodies.

I also argue that Christ delivers the kingdom to God (1 Corinthians 15:24). In order to deliver something, you must possess something to deliver. Christ must have possession of the kingdom prior to this time. This also argues against the idea of different kingdoms.

After the millennium, when satan is cast down into the lake of fire. Then the battle is finally over.

To sum it up, I reject that the Scripture teaches a 7 year tribulation period. This idea is commonly argued by Daniel 9 in Futurist/Dispensational teaching. However, Daniel 9 can be shown to refer to Antiochus Epiphanies and much more could be said about that. Lastly, Jesus pointed to the past to communicate what would happen in the near future. He told His disciples that the generation at that time would live to see the fulfillment of Matthew 25. Jesus was not speaking to a group of people some 2000+ years in the future.

No, Jesus was speaking into the future. The people who live to see Matthew 24 [Signs of the Last Days] are the ones that will live to see Matthew 25.


Lineman101

What a perfect timing to re-read revelation. Just got done reading Johns and Jude over the weekend. The book of Revelation will be next.

[Vaktathi]

God created us in His image. But He also gave us a free will. Take the account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. The rich man begged Abraham to send someone back from the grave to warn his brothers of Hell.

It's clear that not even someone coming back to life will change ones mind. Faith is what changes minds and hearts.

If someone unquestionably dead (i.e. massive head trauma, been dead for weeks/years/etc, was cremated, etc) and came back to life, I'm sure people would be a whole lot more open to listening to something, Faith or no.

Either that or they'd be put *back* into the grave as fast as possible, nobody likes zombies.

[Lineman101]

you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aredeliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (emphasis mine ESV)

I might add that in verse 14, it communicates that the gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole world. The fulfillment of this can be found in Romans 1:8 (8) First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. (emphasis mine ESV)
Next Jesus discusses the Abomination of Desolation. Antiochus desecrated the Temple ~200BC. You can read some here regarding the act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanesthis generation

[Barang]

I must confess that I meant to use Matthew 24 and not Matthew 25 in a previous post. I noticed my number mistake after looking at the post. Anyway, Matthew 24 is what the conversation is about concerning whether Christ was speaking about the current generation in His time or a future generation.
As Jesus is leaving the Temple, His disciples point out to Him the Temple construction. Jesus responds to this by telling them that not one stone would be left on another, but that they would be thrown down.

24: 1-2 ( Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple )

you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aredeliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (emphasis mine ESV)


24: 3-14 ( Jesus was telling them the condition of the last days including the signs. )

I might add that in verse 14, it communicates that the gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole world. The fulfillment of this can be found in Romans 1:8 (8) First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. (emphasis mine ESV)
Next Jesus discusses the Abomination of Desolation. Antiochus desecrated the Temple ~200BC. You can read some here regarding the act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes

24: 15-28 ( Jesus was talking about the great tribulation.) I refer you to 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And 24: 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus in Matthew 24:15 uses the memory of the past, Antiochus, to communicate the horror that would shortly be occurring in the future. He communicated to His disciples the coming destruction of the Temple and the burning of Jerusalem; where over 1 million Jews were slaughtered in the siege of AD70.

I believe this verse is talking about 666 desecrating the temple during his reign.



I have to disagree. Rapture occured prior to tribulation and the verse below talks about the Second Coming.
Rapture is limited to christians so the "all the tribes of the earth mourn" clearly refers to the Second Coming.
24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jesus then tells them in Matthew 24:34: (34) Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

John was given this great vision of what's going to take place in the future. He saw the condition of the Seven churches --->to Rapture ---> 666, false prophet and satan ---> tribulation --->Second Coming --->final rebellion --->defeat of satan --->White Throne Judgement ---> New Heaven and Earth, New Jerusalem ---> We will be able to see God and Jesus face to to face.

Amen! Come soon Jesus.