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Dating the Exodus to find who was Pharaoh.

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  • Darto
    CGN Contributor
    • Apr 2012
    • 6313

    Dating the Exodus to find who was Pharaoh.

    I do believe it was Hatsheput, one of the few female Pharaohs.

    Dating the Exodus.
    First thing is to date when the Kings of Israel ruled. This was done during the 1800s and so far as I know, every scholar agrees with these dates. It came as a result from the 3rd greatest archaeological discovery of all time (#1 was King Tut's tomb): The palace and library of Ashurbanipal (King of Assyria), the display of this is in London and other related treasures are in Germany now.


    Now that we know when the Kings of Israel ruled, we read the Bible's text of how many years previous to certain of their Kings the Exodus was. This of course depends on the credence given to the Old testament writings. But it comes out to about 1440 B.C. (according to these relative dates in the Bible).
    -------------
    Next we compare these with the accepted dates for the Pharaohs. Here is the list on the New York Metropolitan Museum:
    “A chronological list of the rulers and pharaohs of Ancient Egypt and Nubia based on kings lists kept by the ancient Egyptians: the Palermo Stone, the Abydos Kings List, and the Turin Canon.”


    We see 18th dynasty Tutmoses III who ruled for many decades. He became Pharaoh as a 2 year old child. His aunt, Hatsheput was made regent for the child (she held the real power). Shortly thereafter Hatsheput became a full Pharaoh and no longer just a regent.

    Funerary Temple of Hatsheput still stands today, magnificent. This gigantic wonder has always been known, it endured very visible for thousands of years down through today.
    You can see gigantic figures, at the entrance, including Hatsheput:


    ----------
    Inside at the entrance:


    List of Pharaohs near the correct date (New York Metropolitan Museum)
    “A chronological list of the rulers and pharaohs of Ancient Egypt and Nubia based on kings lists kept by the ancient Egyptians: the Palermo Stone, the Abydos Kings List, and the Turin Canon.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_tomb_of_Hatshepsut
    ------
    A pharaoh that perished in the swamp or sea (the "Red Sea") chasing Moses and his people could probably not have been burred in a tomb. The only Pharaoh not found to be burred in a known tomb around 1440 BC is Hatsheput.

    Thutmoses III was a great Pharaoh who reigned both before and decades after the year 1440. His letters and battles are recorded in clay and chiseled on monuments in Egypt and also in other nations nearby. It's hard to believe he died way before that, in around 1440 B.C. On the other hand, it's very easy to see why Hatsheput's record just stops with no explanation what happened to her in the Egyptian records (after such magnificent monuments early in her reign). She just suddenly disappears from the records but Thutmoses III continues on gloriously in Egyptian records.

  • #2
    Darto
    CGN Contributor
    • Apr 2012
    • 6313

    History of Thutmoses III and Hatsheput according to Egyptian records.
    Thutmoses II dies and his son and heir is only 2 years old. And so his aunt rules a his Regent for a very few years until Thutmoses III is almost a teenager and then he marries dear old Aunt Hatsheput. At this point they are now both Pharaohs but Hatsheput is the real power and her very young husband rules in name only.
    She now builds her funeral tomb (not her grand mortuary temple) But then her son becomes general of all the armies and wins famous battles still talked about today. Little by little he now becomes the real power and Hatsheput who was once magnificent ruler is hardly mentioned, and then disappears from the records. Right before WWI, Howard Carter will find her tomb and discover that nobody was ever buried in it. Her tomb is called Hatsheput Beloved Wife of Pharaoh because she had married Thumoses III.

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    • #3
      socal m1 shooter
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2013
      • 1227

      Joel Kramer (same pastor and archeologist in both videos) concludes Amenhotep II in a different video. His approach (I'm a layman when it comes to history, all I know about it is that history shows no one ever learns anything from history) seems to be what the video linked in the OP above shows: use the appearance of an eclipse to link or reconcile two different ways of reckoning years using an event (a synchronicity) we can pinpoint on our Gregorian calendar with precision. Then he relies on the Bible from that point. Kramer's 1446 B.C. = Exodus agrees with another commentator who I sometimes read (Fruchtenbaum, in his Genesis commentary).

      About a decade ago the first film from Patterns of Evidence was released, but from what I recall the film didn't take a firm stance on the identity of the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Rather, it argued (as you can see in this derivative work) that the mainstream view of the Egyptian chronology was incorrect. The alternative chronology they argued for was Rohl's New Chronology, from what I recall. Rohl himself gives a pretty compelling pitch for it here, starting about 44 minutes in.

      A chronology can be helpful, IME, and sometimes careful working out of dates reveals interesting details. For example, when Jacob deceived Isaac to receive the blessing, he was in his late seventies. Not to hijack the thread, but this is what Fruchtenbaum suggests in his Genesis commentary:
      • Abraham born, 2166 B.C.
      • Abraham leaves Haran, 2091 (Genesis 12:4) at age 75. His first encounter with God.
      • Abraham, second encounter with God (Genesis 13:14)
      • Abraham, third encounter with God (Genesis 15)
      • Isaac born, 2066 (Genesis 21:5), Abraham is 100.
      • Jacob born, 2006 (Genesis 25:26), Abraham is 160.
      • Abraham dies, 1991 (Genesis 25:7)
      • Joseph born, 1915
      • Joseph sold, 1898 (Genesis 37:2, 28)
      • Isaac dies, 1886 (Genesis 35:26)
      • Jacob begins sojourn in Egypt, 1876 (Genesis 47:9)
      • Jacob dies, 1859 (Genesis 47:28)
      • Joseph dies, 1805 (Genesis 50:26)
      • Exodus, 1446 B.C.
      There are many chronologies, I don't think it is bad to educate oneself regarding this, particularly when mainstream sources dismiss the Bible as fiction.
      iTrader under old CalGuns

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      • #4
        Darto
        CGN Contributor
        • Apr 2012
        • 6313

        When I first looked into this (about a week ago), Amenhotep II seemed like the most likely candidate. But his tomb was found (Tomb KV35) and his body most definitely was in it (found by Loret in 1898). But nobody was ever buried in Hatsheput's tomb (KV20). (All archaeologists including Howard Carter who found her tomb did and still do believe this to be true).

        The only Pharaoh in that time period who's body is missing is Hatsheput (she of course wore an addon ceremonial beard when seated on the throne, such as when Moses had an official audience with her). So did Cleopatra a thousand years later or so.

        Howard Carter would later (after a pause for WWI) also find Tut's tomb. And wonder of wonder it was almost unraided by grave robbers. When they recently moved all of Tut's tomb treasure to the new Egyptian Museum annex in Cairo, it took 12 rooms to house all of Tut's tomb treasure ! Nothing in archeology compares to this find!

        In other words, a Pharaoh perishing in the Red Sea may not have a body available to bury. And she was expunged from the ancient Egyptian records, at least as much as they could do so. Why? Did some embarrassing disgrace cause this?

        Last edited by Darto; 06-05-2024, 5:07 PM.

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        • #5
          Darto
          CGN Contributor
          • Apr 2012
          • 6313

          Exodus says the Israelites despoiled Egypt (they stole Egyptian jewelry and gold). Probably because they were jewelers who dealt in these sorts of precious things. So then Hatshesput blows a gasket when she finds out the clever Jacobites have robbed her blind and she assembles chariots to chase them down. Only to oh so very foolishly lose that chariot cohort into the "sea" in some sort of silly miscalculation.
          And now her co-regent (and rival since the age of 2) the great warrior of the battle of Kadesh (Thutmoses) finally has his excuse to take his revenge by calling her an embarrassment to the royal house and branding her a failure to Egypt.

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          • #6
            Darto
            CGN Contributor
            • Apr 2012
            • 6313

            Originally posted by socal m1 shooter
            Joel Kramer (same pastor and archeologist in both videos) concludes Amenhotep II in a different video.n.
            At the Armstrong Institute, they also conclude Amenhotep II as the Exodus Pharaoh. And they believe the reason that Hatsheput was removed for most records was not because she chased down the fleeing Israelites. But because she was the "Pharaoh's daughter of the Bible who found Moses as a baby floating on the river. Hatsheput would have been about 13 years old and not yet Pharaoh or regent of Egypt.

            There is no controversy that she did indeed raise a commoner to high position, once she was on the throne (she gave appointed him to over 90 government offices). His Egyptian name was Senenmut. And there is no controversy that Senenmut fell into disgrace (i.e. the records suddenly never mention him again).

            Over 10 statues of Senenmut have been found, some of which show him holding Hatsheput's only child on his lap. It is very unusual for a commoner to be shown larger than a royal or touching a royal (Hatsheput's daughter was royal). One explanation is that this commoner Senenmut was beloved of Pharaoh Hatsheput (she had found him on the river when she was about 13 years old). An therefore he was above any taboo.

            They (Armstrong Institute archaeologists) think perhaps the Biblical story of Moses fleeing Egypt and to go living in Midian after he had held positions of power is the story of Senemut. And Moses' disgrace is why Hatsheput and Senemut (Moses) suddenly fell into disgrace. And not because Hatsheput was chasing Isaraelites with chariots. They believe that was Amenhotep II.

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            • #7
              sealocan
              Calguns Addict
              • Mar 2012
              • 9943

              Wrong!
              You're all wrong!


              I saw the documentary and it was definitely Yul Brenner.



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              • #8
                Darto
                CGN Contributor
                • Apr 2012
                • 6313

                One of Moses' daughters became suspicious about who her mother was.

                images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTz6_WxGw24iR2AHBeW-RhcinhdRbB9HUdkIQ&s.jpg

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