Forgiveness, repentance... and restitution?

[Kokopelli]

Had an interesting talk with someone dealing with guilt. They said they are having old sins pop into their mind and wonder if they have lost their salvation. I recited Romans 10:9 to them, "For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

They wondered if they are under attack by the devil. I wondered if God is bringing the past to mind. But why might He do that? Could God be chastising them?

If I borrowed my neighbors lawn mower and broke it, it is moral and right that I repair or replace it before returning it. Restitution must be made. What if I returned the broken lawn mower and my neighbor got mad?

Matthew 5:23-24 ?Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift."

Reconcile before coming before The Lord. That requires an action on our part.

Luke 19 (NIV)
Zacchaeus the Tax Collector

Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, ?Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.? So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

All the people saw this and began to mutter, ?He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.?

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, ?Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.?

Jesus said to him, ?Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.?

Note the sequence.

1. Zacchaeus wanted to see Jesus.
2. Jesus wanted to be with him.
3. Accusers called Zacchaeus a sinner. (Isn't that just like the devil?)
4. Zacchaeus confessed his sin.
5. Zacchaeus made restitution for his thefts and changed his heart from a taker to a giver.
6. Jesus announces that salvation has come to him.

So, the question comes up. Are we to repay? The one I was talking with stole tens of thousands of dollars of family inheritance decades ago. Some in the family are mad about it. Others are dead. Memories are the devil's playground.

"Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you." Colossians 3:13

Jesus addresses the relationship between the sinner and the the victim of sin.

Matthew 18:23-35 ?Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

?At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ?Be patient with me,? he begged, ?and I will pay back everything.? The servant?s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

?But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ?Pay back what you owe me!? he demanded.

?His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ?Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.?

?But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

?Then the master called the servant in. ?You wicked servant,? he said, ?I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn?t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?? In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

?This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.?

Forgive us our debt, as we forgive our debtors and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen.

[Barang]

my wife and i still watch billy graham weekly because of his Biblical sermons. he always emphasized "repentance and turning away from sin" when receiving Jesus as your Savior.

majority of pastors on t.v. hardly do what billy graham did. modern pastors just tell you to accept Jesus as your Savior, repent and that's it. no turning away from sin like Jesus and John told the sinners after they repent.

if you stole something, you must return it as a converted man. if the person you stole it from is dead then give it to christian charities, orgs or ministries.

[Dirtlaw]

Love my Christian brothers. Nuff said.

[Garand Hunter]

When issues like this happen........Let the tempter know, I DO NOT LIVE THERE ANYMORE...the past is under THE BLOOD Of Jesus.

Psalm 1

[billvau]

Had an interesting talk with someone dealing with guilt. They said they are having old sins pop into their mind and wonder if they have lost their salvation. I recited Romans 10:9 to them, "For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

They wondered if they are under attack by the devil. I wondered if God is bringing the past to mind. But why might He do that? Could God be chastising them?

Per the first part of your post:

1. Have they lost their salvation? NO. Just quote Christ in the passage "I AM the Good Shepherd.." :

John10:27 ?My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 ?My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father?s hand. 30 ?I and the Father are one.?

No one can take a sheep from Christ's hand AND the Father's hand.

2. Are they under attack by the devil? Almost absolutely no. Satan is NOT omnipresent. I.e. He can only be at one place at a time. He is going to be spending his time where he can get the greatest return. My example is that he's usually with Joel Osteen.

Our FLESH is our greatest adversary! Our redeemed soul is incarcerated in our flesh, our humanity. Three critical points about the flesh:

A. There is NOTHING GOOD in my flesh:

Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

The good in you, the new "I" is your redeemed soul!


B. Our flesh wages war against the HOLY SPIRIT who is in us!

Gal.5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

The previous verse (Gal. 5:16) commands us walk by the Spirit and we won't carry out the desires of our flesh. V.17 is the "because" - IOW walk by the Spirit BECAUSE the flesh is waging war against Him! The flesh's "desire" (v.16) is for you to sin.

B. Our flesh's very nature is to wage war against our redeemed soul!

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Do you see the battle here? Our flesh against the HOLY SPIRIT! and against our redeemed soul!

Remember:

1 John2:15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

Three easy ways leading to sin: "the lust of the flesh," "the lust of the eyes," and "the boastful pride of life."

Your friend is sinfully willing to look inside and focus on guilt. But, they want to look outside and be the victim of Satan. They need to look inside at the battle between their flesh and their redeemed soul. "Walk by the Spirit" (Gal. 5:17 - obey Scripture consciously using the power of the Holy Spirit in you) and put off guilt sin (earth-bound thinking (Col. 3:1-2).

God doesn't want us to live in guilt. Christ died on the cross for ALL of our sins - past, present, and future. Repent quickly and get back into close, intimate fellowship with Jesus Christ as the Father has called us to do (1 Cor. 1:9)!

Blessings,

[IronsightsRifleman]

majority of pastors on t.v. hardly do what billy graham did. modern pastors just tell you to accept Jesus as your Savior, repent and that's it. no turning away from sin like Jesus and John told the sinners after they repent.

repent - 1. To turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/repent

[Barang]

repent - 1. To turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/repent

when you ask people what it means to repent, what do majority say? do they say "remorse /sorry" or "remorse + making a u-turn?"

if the former then they went into the water a sinner and came out of the water wet sinner.

that's the reason why billy graham was and still effective with his sermons because he made sure you get the foundation correct. ray comfort also does the same.
1- accept Jesus as your Savior.
2- repent from your sin.
3 - turn away from sin/change direction/changing of mind.

[2761377]

God created us.

there is no unrighteousness in Him.

He cannot create evil.

our flesh is not evil.

[Garand Hunter]

Take a closer look at the scriptures Bro, there is a verse where God say HE creates evil. Get out your Strongs Concordance. Also, check out where HE set up Ahab to fall at Ramoth Gilead.

Psalm 1

[billvau]

when you ask people what it means to repent, what do majority say? do they say "remorse /sorry" or "remorse + making a u-turn?"

if the former then they went into the water a sinner and came out of the water wet sinner.

that's the reason why billy graham was and still effective with his sermons because he made sure you get the foundation correct. ray comfort also does the same.
1- accept Jesus as your Savior.
2- repent from your sin.
3 - turn away from sin/change direction/changing of mind.

Barang - I think you're mixing two kinds of repentance here.

The first repentance a person does is for salvation. Repentance then is this process where understanding you are a sinner, you make a complete turn away from you life and accept the free gift of salvation. So...

1. Understand/admit that you are a sinner headed to hell
(Romans 3:23; 6:23a).

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death, ...

2. Understand / accept Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation from your sins
(Romans 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9).

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works,
so that no one may boast.

The second type of repentance is repentance done AS a Christian (i.e. already have done the first one). This is when we confess specific sins and make a complete turn from them by (1) asking forgiveness from God, (2) putting off the sin, and (3) putting on godly behavior.

If there's anyone reading this that has not repented as a sinner and accepted Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation, please IM me, and I'll gladly make sure you understand this free gift and pray with you for your salvation!

Blessings and Merry Christmas!

[Dirtlaw]

Per the first part of your post:

1. Have they lost their salvation? NO. Just quote Christ in the passage "I AM the Good Shepherd.." :

John10:27 ?My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 ?My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father?s hand. 30 ?I and the Father are one.?

No one can take a sheep from Christ's hand AND the Father's hand.

2. Are they under attack by the devil? Almost absolutely no. Satan is NOT omnipresent. I.e. He can only be at one place at a time. He is going to be spending his time where he can get the greatest return. My example is that he's usually with Joel Osteen.

Our FLESH is our greatest adversary! Our redeemed soul is incarcerated in our flesh, our humanity. Three critical points about the flesh:

A. There is NOTHING GOOD in my flesh:

Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

The good in you, the new "I" is your redeemed soul!


B. Our flesh wages war against the HOLY SPIRIT who is in us!

Gal.5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

The previous verse (Gal. 5:16) commands us walk by the Spirit and we won't carry out the desires of our flesh. V.17 is the "because" - IOW walk by the Spirit BECAUSE the flesh is waging war against Him! The flesh's "desire" (v.16) is for you to sin.

B. Our flesh's very nature is to wage war against our redeemed soul!

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

Do you see the battle here? Our flesh against the HOLY SPIRIT! and against our redeemed soul!

Remember:

1 John2:15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

Three easy ways leading to sin: "the lust of the flesh," "the lust of the eyes," and "the boastful pride of life."

Your friend is sinfully willing to look inside and focus on guilt. But, they want to look outside and be the victim of Satan. They need to look inside at the battle between their flesh and their redeemed soul. "Walk by the Spirit" (Gal. 5:17 - obey Scripture consciously using the power of the Holy Spirit in you) and put off guilt sin (earth-bound thinking (Col. 3:1-2).

God doesn't want us to live in guilt. Christ died on the cross for ALL of our sins - past, present, and future. Repent quickly and get back into close, intimate fellowship with Jesus Christ as the Father has called us to do (1 Cor. 1:9)!

Blessings,

Yes!

[Barang]

Barang - I think you're mixing two kinds of repentance here.

The first repentance a person does is for salvation. Repentance then is this process where understanding you are a sinner, you make a complete turn away from you life and accept the free gift of salvation. So...

1. Understand/admit that you are a sinner headed to hell
(Romans 3:23; 6:23a).

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death, ...

2. Understand / accept Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation from your sins
(Romans 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9).

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works,
so that no one may boast.

The second type of repentance is repentance done AS a Christian (i.e. already have done the first one). This is when we confess specific sins and make a complete turn from them by (1) asking forgiveness from God, (2) putting off the sin, and (3) putting on godly behavior.

If there's anyone reading this that has not repented as a sinner and accepted Jesus Christ's free gift of salvation, please IM me, and I'll gladly make sure you understand this free gift and pray with you for your salvation!

Blessings and Merry Christmas!

no argument here. i was just merely pointing out what a true conversion looks like.

after conversion is when the battle begins. you are now at war with your flesh . this is when growing in the knowledge of God"s Word will make a difference in giving you clarity of what's right and wrong; the strength (from God) you will need to be victorious.

before i was truly "saved" i was doing things that the Bible prohibits. but because of Biblical preaching like billy graham, adrian rodgers, ray comfort and the likes made me u-turn. the 10 Commandments and destination hell were my wake up call and truly understand the seriousness of my sins.

[Dirtlaw]

no argument here. i was just merely pointing out what a true conversion looks like.

after conversion is when the battle begins. you are now at war with your flesh . this is when growing in the knowledge of God"s Word will make a difference in giving you clarity of what's right and wrong; the strength (from God) you will need to be victorious.

before i was truly "saved" i was doing things that the Bible prohibits. but because of Biblical preaching like billy graham, adrian rodgers, ray comfort and the likes made me u-turn. the 10 Commandments and destination hell were my wake up call and truly understand the seriousness of my sins.

It is a battle.

[2761377]

Psalm 91(92)
v14 Those planted in the house of the Lord
Shall blossom forth in the courts of our God;
15 They shall still be increased in a rich old age,
And shall be prospering
16 So as to proclaim "The Lord my God is upright,
And there is no wrongdoing in Him."

St Paul epistle to the Romans, Chap 7 verse 17
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Man is not sinful by nature. The Orthodox Church rejects any teaching that man has a "sin nature", or that man's nature is depraved to the core. This passage clearly shows that sin is something distinct from out nature. Because we are created in the image of God(Gn 1:26) there is an indelible goodness in our nature that can never be undone. While we can become immersed in sin, we know that it is still not part of our nature, but a foreign force that dwells in us. Thus, sin is what we do, not what we are. see also v20.

[Barang]

Man is not sinful by nature. The Orthodox Church rejects any teaching that man has a "sin nature", or that man's nature is depraved to the core. This passage clearly shows that sin is something distinct from out nature. Because we are created in the image of God(Gn 1:26) there is an indelible goodness in our nature that can never be undone. While we can become immersed in sin, we know that it is still not part of our nature, but a foreign force that dwells in us. Thus, sin is what we do, not what we are. see also v20.

adam and eve were perfect and sinless until they disobeyed God. that's how and why we're born with sin. the reason why we need Jesus to save us from hell by paying for our sin.

when the rapture comes, we will be in a perfect state like Jesus. Come quickly Lord.