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  • #16
    Arrieta578
    Member
    • May 2014
    • 497

    Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
    You summed up exactly why I thought the movie was garbage. It's inconceivable that he was able to memorize the Bible word for word, verse by verse. For that reason, his version of the Bible is cast into doubt that it's the inerrant Word of God...
    Seriously? So who do you believe wrote the Gospel of John? John certainly didn’t write it? Do you believe Noah built an Ark? What about Moses and the Red Sea? Don’t you believe in the power of God? In “miracles”? The whole point is Eli was “called upon by a ‘voice’ to find the Book and deliver it “West”. Don’t you believe if God were to call upon Eli to deliver the Book and protect him, He could also inspire Eli to miraculously memorize it? Suspend your disbelief for a moment and enjoy the film as a “story”. After all, it’s just fiction. I don’t think it’s an attack on Christianity or the Bible.

    Another couple of interesting comments from the film. Eli, when locked in his cell mysteriously escapes while an armed guard stands outside and then continues walking “west.” When they enter the cell, the bars on the window are still locked closed. This is reminiscent of Peter’s famous escape the night before his execution which is echoed throughout history with other miraculous escapes by other devout Christians like John of the Cross, for example.

    Then, there is the issue that the last Bible, when in the hands of evil ironically is in a language inaccessible to the unbeliever —in this case Braille, a coded language which requires translation (a Divine gift?) just like the original ancient Greek texts requires translation into English. The Apostles spoke Aramaic and were not literate. The Gospels were written in Greek who supposedly heard the Apostle speak and give “testament” (an eye witness account) as to what they saw and experienced. Thus, from the beginning when discussing the Gospels we are working with a translation (Aramaic to Greek). We read our Bibles in English however. Again, a translation of a translation of someone who spoke Aramaic over 2000 years ago —and that’s a best case scenario. We don’t have the original texts or translations of the Gospels, only copies of copies that are in most cases incomplete. The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century.

    Finally, there is the issue of Eli’s companion and her mother who is also blind like Eli. It should be noted that prophets in the Old Testament and in Greek mythology are traditionally blind and as a result they are the only ones who can truely “see.” Solara —meaning ‘sun’ in Latin— is similar to the Biblical “Mary” figures. When Eli is shot, abandoned and left to die it is Solara who returns to help. Why? Because she prayed with Eli and she felt something. She too is now a “believer.”

    And why “West”? Because the Bible and Christianity are fundamental basis for all of western civilization. Without Christianity there would be no Humanism, no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no Descartes, no Cartesian split, no concept of the individual, no concept of personal freedom or liberty. So it only make sense that Eli must go “west” because that is where “western civilization ” starts and must be reborn... (yea, I know this is very Eurocentric thinking...).

    You don’t have to like the film. I only responded because you brought it up.
    Last edited by Arrieta578; 07-21-2019, 1:34 AM.

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    • #17
      vinconco
      Member
      • Jun 2015
      • 448

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      • #18
        RAMCLAP
        Veteran Member
        • Nov 2012
        • 2872

        Originally posted by Arrieta578
        Seriously? So who do you believe wrote the Gospel of John
        Wow. John didn't write John??? Who knew?
        Psalm 103
        Mojave Lever Crew

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        • #19
          theLBC
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Oct 2017
          • 6601

          Eli is not blind.

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          • #20
            gumby
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2007
            • 2325

            Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
            Yes, nailed the incorrect view of the current Bible.
            Nope.

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            • #21
              FresnoRob
              Senior Member
              • May 2013
              • 2133

              I enjoyed the movie. If you are looking for theological or factual accuracy in a Sci-Fi movie you need to rethink why you are watching them.

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              • #22
                Arrieta578
                Member
                • May 2014
                • 497

                Originally posted by FresnoRob
                I enjoyed the movie. If you are looking for theological or factual accuracy in a Sci-Fi movie you need to rethink why you are watching them.

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                • #23
                  omgwtfbbq
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 3445

                  Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
                  You summed up exactly why I thought the movie was garbage. It's inconceivable that he was able to memorize the Bible word for word, verse by verse. For that reason, his version of the Bible is cast into doubt that it's the inerrant word of God. Rather, it's man's word commingled with God's inspiration and it's subject to translation and transcription errors. And that's the general misconception of the current Bible.
                  Hmm... So you were fine with the all the other inaccuracies in the movie, such as a blind man being able to one kill hordes of bad guys simply by using his elevated sense of hearing, but you bow out when the film maker puts forth that he might also have an impossibly perfect memory?

                  I think you're splitting hairs at the very least.

                  While I don't think it was a great movie, I was entertained. Then again, I wasn't looking at is as a piece trying proselytize or teach the word of God either.

                  If I want to feel/be in reverence of Christ or God, I don't look for it in movies. I pray or go to Worship service.
                  "Far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." - Theodore Roosevelt

                  Originally posted by rmorris7556
                  They teach you secret stuff I can't mention on line.

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                  • #24
                    Wordupmybrotha
                    From anotha motha
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Oct 2013
                    • 6965

                    Originally posted by omgwtfbbq
                    Hmm... So you were fine with the all the other inaccuracies in the movie, such as a blind man being able to one kill hordes of bad guys simply by using his elevated sense of hearing
                    I don't think he was blind

                    Originally posted by omgwtfbbq
                    but you bow out when the film maker puts forth that he might also have an impossibly perfect memory?
                    Yep. Whoever uses that bible and whatever religion is derived from it hinges on that ONE man's memory and that ONE scribe's ability to transcribe accurately. Sounds like mormonism. The contents of the Christian Bible, on the other hand, has been corroborated by multiple eyewitnesses who were still alive at the time of the writings and the accuracies of the transcriptions were validated by mutiplicities of manuscripts. Refer to writings of Bruce Metzger mentioned in the Case For Christ by Lee Strobel.

                    Originally posted by omgwtfbbq
                    Then again, I wasn't looking at is as a piece trying proselytize or teach the word of God either.

                    If I want to feel/be in reverence of Christ or God, I don't look for it in movies. I pray or go to Worship service.
                    Me too

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                    • #25
                      Wordupmybrotha
                      From anotha motha
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Oct 2013
                      • 6965

                      Originally posted by Arrieta578
                      To say it another way, how are you supposed to formulate Christian Doctrine (religious practice) from the words of the New Testament, when you are unsure as to exactly what those words are?.
                      Have you read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel?

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                      • #26
                        Arrieta578
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 497

                        Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
                        Have you read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel?
                        Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
                        Have you read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel?
                        In my humble opinion, and please don’t take this as an insult, but I read The Case for Christ as “American” Evangelical Apologetics designed to convince innocent people to “believe” and I think Christian Apologetics is dead and indefensible in light of the historical record. Furthermore, for me personally “Faith” built on apologetic arguments cannot be authentic “Faith”.

                        Let me explain. I have a very good friend who cheats on his wife. She is both brilliant and beautiful—she speaks five languages: French, Spanish, German, English and Italian. She holds a Ph.D. in Medieval French Literature from an Ivy League University. She is sexy and elegant. And yet, my friend has been cheating on her on a regular basis over and over again for the last 20 years. He is a liar. His stories of where he has been, with whom, for how long, and for what reason never add up. And she’s not an idiot. She knows he’s a liar. She knows he is cheating on her. In fact, she even knows many of the women he’s slept with. In some cases, these other women are her “friends”. She goes to the movies and goes to lunch with them. They are married and have children together.

                        Despite all this, she also “believes” three other things: 1) He loves her. 2) He will always come home to her. And, 3) in this sense he is loyal to her.

                        This, in my opinion is true “Faith”. It’s believing in something when all the evidence is against you. She doesn’t need anyone to tell her why he is faithful to her. She “Believes” and that is enough.
                        Last edited by Arrieta578; 07-22-2019, 12:21 AM.

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                        • #27
                          MASTERLAB
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 969

                          I look at the movie from this lens.

                          The character in the movie was a man of faith. He was commanded by God to accomplish a task (deliver the bible). He was truly commanded by God, much like Moses and many others from the bible. On that path he encountered trials along the way (being blind, people trying to cheat and kill him, sexual temptation, etc) but God watched over his faithful messenger. Eli would not have been able to fight, shoot, to have bullets miss him from close range, to maintain his direction without God's help. Similarly when Eli gave away the physical bible and was shot in the stomach, God gave him the strength to continue to reach his destination and provided the words for him when he had to dictate the bible to the Librarian. Eli did not memorize the bible, the words were given to him by God so that Eli could accomplish the mission God gave him.
                          Last edited by MASTERLAB; 07-21-2019, 10:54 PM.

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                          • #28
                            MASTERLAB
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 969

                            Originally posted by Wordupmybrotha
                            I don't think he was blind



                            Yep. Whoever uses that bible and whatever religion is derived from it hinges on that ONE man's memory and that ONE scribe's ability to transcribe accurately. Sounds like mormonism. The contents of the Christian Bible, on the other hand, has been corroborated by multiple eyewitnesses who were still alive at the time of the writings and the accuracies of the transcriptions were validated by mutiplicities of manuscripts. Refer to writings of Bruce Metzger mentioned in the Case For Christ by Lee Strobel.
                            I disagree, I think he was blind. I think it's important because he would not have been able to accomplish what he did on its own.

                            The 10 commandments came were given to Moses directly by God. We shouldn't limit what God is capable of. Samson was given by God enormous strength to accomplish the tasks God gave him. Jonah was swallowed and spit back up by a whale sent by God to put him back on path.
                            Last edited by MASTERLAB; 07-21-2019, 11:23 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Z ME FLY
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 6590

                              Originally posted by MASTERLAB
                              I disagree, I think he was blind. I think it's important because he would not have been able to accomplish what he did on its own.

                              The 10 commandments came were given to Moses directly by God. We shouldn't limit what God is capable of. Samsung was given by God enormous strength to accomplish the tasks God gave him. Jonah was swallowed and spit back up by a whale sent by God to put him back on path.
                              You might be Samson and not Samsung.
                              Originally posted by 69Mach1
                              The virgin requires more work (don't they all )

                              Originally posted by 69Mach1
                              Z gets around. lol

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                              • #30
                                MASTERLAB
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 969

                                Originally posted by Z ME FLY
                                You might be Samson and not Samsung.
                                Auto-correct. Thank-you for pointing it out, fixed it

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