Romans 13

[crono35]

Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

From a plain reading, it says that anyone who stands up to their government is going against God's will. Of course, this doesn't go very well with how our nation was founded. How do you justify standing up to a corrupt government in the face of what is written?

[Subotai]

Acts 4:19–20
19 But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, 20 for lwe cannot but speak of what mwe have seen and heard.”

Acts 5:29
29 But Peter and the apostles answered, g“We must obey God rather than men.

[ErikC12]

I think it is a twofold passage. Firstly, I look at it from the perspective that the governing authority is either A) Acting in accordance with God's will, so rebeling against them is rebeling against God. Or B) They are not in accordance with God's will, but are being used to advance His plan, so rebeling is working counter to God.
Secondly, it is very possible that Paul wrote this to guard against the letter being intercepted by Roman authorities, so that the new church wouldn't draw any additional unwanted attention or persecution.

[RAMCLAP]

In a government by the people the people are the governing authority and those elected to office do the peoples bidding. So when the government becomes corrupt and no longer listens to the people it is they who are sinning.

[Kokopelli]

Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

From a plain reading, it says that anyone who stands up to their government is going against God's will. Of course, this doesn't go very well with how our nation was founded. How do you justify standing up to a corrupt government in the face of what is written?

I hear what you are saying and that is true. There are other factors to consider. For one, Jesus told his disciple to bring their swords with them to the garden of Gethsemane. This was to defend themselves against "government thugs" during an illegal arrest.

Proverbs 29:2 - When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.

And what if government acts contrary to the commands of God?

Acts 5:29 - Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Just some food for thought.

<"(((><

[Fastattack]

I'd start with a re-read of The Declaration of Independence.

[CVShooter]

If you're looking in the Bible for a consistent program for how to respond to the prevailing government, you'll be sorely disappointed.

If your government oppresses you, you have Biblical precedent for:

Mass emigration
Hostile Takeover of new lands
Genocide
Killing of newborns (well, you can say God did it)
Joining up with the ruling government
Rising up against the ruling government

Paul had a different objective then Jesus. Jesus was an insurrectionist hoping to take back the throne of David from the hands of Rome and the ruling authorities (who were appointed by Rome). He failed & was executed for his crime.

Paul was trying to spread some of the teachings of Jesus but had a very different idea of Jesus, owing to the fact that he never actually met the guy. Paul needed followers. But he would have been executed too if he gave the same message as Jesus. So he changed things a little, making Jesus into "The Christ." The Christ was more spiritual and had a spiritual message, not one about the here and now. This was more palatable to Rome. I don't think Paul was disingenuous about this, though. I think he honestly believed it.

Either way, his objective was different than Jesus's -- convert Romans into Christians. To do that, you have to fly under the radar of Roman suspicion. So telling people to submit to the authorities is just good wisdom. It keeps people from starting fights and having the whole movement killed in its infancy.

I'd say the same applies today. If the authorities confront you on something, just comply. Things get ugly fast if you resist.

[billvau]

Romans 13 is correct. The American Revolution was not a biblically-supported revolution. The Bible only supported one revolution - and that was back in the OT and had to do with preserving the line of Christ.

Think about the times of the New Testament under Rome. And, yet, you don't see politics, revolution, even social change, as topics concerning Christians.

No time to write now. Can put more later, if necessary!

[TrailerparkTrash]

From a plain reading, it says that anyone who stands up to their government is going against God's will. Of course, this doesn't go very well with how our nation was founded. How do you justify standing up to a corrupt government in the face of what is written?

[billvau]

Remember, God’s authority is in establishing us to recognize RIGHTEOUS government. Basic good vs evil, corrupt vs uncorrupt governments. Now on a side note, all governments have levels of corruption in some form or another because they are run by SINFUL men (and women).

But the big picture here is a dictatorship vs a free nation, oppressive vs non oppressive governments etc... Standing up to a murderous regime in self defense is acceptable. Evil nations such as North Korea, Cuba, current Venezuela etc... are all evil which God fearing people can stand up to.

I believe these are just some biblical verses that help one distinguish the difference between good and bad people at heart, but also corrupt governments that would not be sanctioned from God, but rather satan himself:

Honestly, the passage says

Ro13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

That says ALL governing authorities. You added "righteous" - it's not there.

Where in the gospels do you see our Lord Jesus do anything except submit to governing authorities - and He was under dictators.

Tough passage to accept but it's God's word/world. My primary citizenship is in heaven (Phil. 3:20) and here I am an alien, a stranger (1 Peter 1:1, 2:11).

Peter's passage below is only about government also:

1 Pe2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. 16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

"every" = all governments.

I'm teaching 1 Peter 2:18-21 tomorrow. 2:13-17 were the past 2-3 teachings! Spent a lot of time going through these passages and Romans 13...

[tcd511]

Mark 12:17 is one of the most famous concerning what our responsibilities are:
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

[RAMCLAP]

Yes. And in America the people are Caesar

[TrailerparkTrash]

Honestly, the passage says

Ro13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

That says ALL governing authorities. You added "righteous" - it's not there.

Where in the gospels do you see our Lord Jesus do anything except submit to governing authorities - and He was under dictators.

Sorry Bill, but God allow us to protect ourselves from evil, PERIOD.

As Christians, we may defend ourselves against wicked evil people, be it individually or with evil governments. Christians have a right to arm themselves (Luke 22:36–38) and what’s the difference between fighting off one attacker or a government’s “army” attacking and oppressing its people?

Not only are we to take care of our individual selves and families lives, but we also have an obligation to preserve the body and life of other people. This means defending ourselves from evil, whether it’s one person or a large evil government that’s hell bent on harming its people.

Psalm 82:4 even cites an obligation to protect those who are in danger: “Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.” Wickedness runs in all forms, including government.

Are you saying we can’t revolt against this type of evil and tyrannical government? So Jews nor anyone against the Nazis couldn’t revolt to Hitler because you think it’s biblically forbidden to do so? Were the innocent Cambodians forbidden biblically to stand up to the Khmer Rouge under the slaughtering monster Pol Pot?

One must be thoroughly confused of the passages if you’re unable to discern God’s message about “delivering them out of the hand of the wicked.” It’s basic good vs evil and we are not to embrace, nor support evil (including evil governments).

Romans 13 also says, “For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil." Again, Paul is saying in the Bible that good “rulers” (government) are there to protect “good” people. Whereas “Bad” rulers (government) do the opposite toward their people.

Good government is NOT a terror to good works. So when an evil government is full of tyrannical injustices, destruction and murderous appetites, Christians are not bound by the Lord to submit anylonger to their oppressive governments.

Paul deliberately broke the law in Acts 18:13, “Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.” Paul’s message is to obey God and not truly evil men in power of an earthly throne! Thus, sometimes Christians must rebel against man in order to obey God. This is acceptable.

[Garand Hunter]

# 11, 12, & 13 are right on the mark. As far as this will go, I absolutely believe that God Almighty was the inspiration for the writing of the Declaration of Independence as well the US Constitution. Do a re read of the Mayflower Compact as well. Notice the first six words.

Psalm 1

[billvau]

Sorry, can't agree to any of the above that you wrote. You've taken most verses out-of-context and have not applied proper hemeneutics to others. I stand by what I wrote above as properly biblically interpreted but not easy to accept. Again, go look at how Christ was treated by government. Even look at how Paul was treated. But, you can believe as you choose.

God bless,