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The Forbidden Tree

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  • CVShooter
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2017
    • 1234

    The Forbidden Tree

    I'm not a Christian or Jew or Muslim. But I am a believer that, on the whole, ancient wisdom is superior to modern knowledge. I see them as largely metaphorical and not literal but I also believe metaphor and story to be a vastly superior way to pass on wisdom. So here's something to ponder & discuss. For those of you who have read D. Quinn's book, ISHMAEL, then this will sound familiar.

    In the Genesis myth (myth = explaining story, not just a fanciful tale), Adam and Eve were forbidden to touch or eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. In rabbinic literature, as I understand it, "knowledge of good and evil" are often used as shorthand for "knowledge of everything, even up to what is good and evil" the same way that "40 days and 40 nights" is shorthand for "a very, very long time." After eating the fruit, Adam & Eve gained some knowledge (their nakedness -- vulnerability, perhaps?) and were cast out of the garden, cursed to live by farming and distance from God. We call this "The Fall of Man."

    Yet we, as a culture, consider knowledge (science, for example) sacrosanct. Farmers, doctors and scientists are a sort of secular priesthood in our culture. But farming was the curse and the sin was a thirst for knowledge of all things. We tell the story of the dawn of agriculture and the age of science, not like it's "The Fall" but like it's "The Ascent." We tell a story of progress and achievement of our destiny but Genesis seems to tell a story of tragedy and the rejection of our destiny.

    The theme is repeated in the stories of Cain and Abel. Cain, the farmer, kills his brother Abel, the shepherd. Again in Jacob and Esau. Jacob, the one who stays at home in the tents, steals the inheritance of his brother, the hunter, whom his father loved more (those darned city folk!). The author of Genesis has a consistent theme but it doesn't seem to me that we, as a culture, talk about it at all.

    Don't get me wrong here. I'm become quite comfortable living in paradox and contradiction. I work in finance, do some light farming and enjoy reading and learning a lot. I go to the doctor, eat food grown from farms, drink wine and otherwise enjoy all the benefits that civilized life in the age of science can provide. And why not? It's not like we can go live in the forest eating nuts and berries. Heck, it's illegal anyway.

    Yet, I puzzle over what it would mean to spit out the forbidden fruit -- to give up the endless search for knowledge of everything. To live life in full dependence on God (Allah, Wakan Tanka, whatever) and what it means for our culture that we so readily adopt with pride the very thing that the author of Genesis attempted to convey with shame.

    So my question to the board is how do you see the Genesis myth. How do you enact your version of this story? How do our cultural values influence how we see the myth and how would you reinterpret the myth in our modern, American life?

    No right or wrong answers here -- just looking for good, though-provoking discussion.
  • #2
    mossy
    Calguns Addict
    • Dec 2007
    • 7319

    Originally posted by CVShooter

    So my question to the board is how do you see the Genesis myth.

    .
    God left 2 children and a devious talking snake alone in a house with a burning stove after telling the kids not to touch the amazingly awesome burning stove. They do what ignorant kids do and touch the stove because they are dumb kids. God comes back and kicks the kids out of the house for touching the stove then because he is a loving God he decides all future generations of humans need to be punished because the 2 original kids touched that stove.

    And, no...i don't believe any of it.
    best troll thread in calguns history
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=406739



    burn the circus down cuz the world is full of clowns

    Comment

    • #3
      louie
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2009
      • 1028

      The moral of the story, "Avoid talking snakes at all costs"! I have dealt with many talking snakes in work enviroments and they never give you anything but grief!
      P.S. Snakes that rattle are also to be avoided.

      Comment

      • #4
        TrailerparkTrash
        Veteran Member
        • Oct 2005
        • 4249

        Rattlers taste good! We just had one for Hors d'oeuvres today!
        sigpic

        It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs

        -ΙΧΘΥΣ <><

        Comment

        • #5
          DoubleA
          Member
          • Nov 2012
          • 438

          Comment

          • #6
            Garand Hunter
            Veteran Member
            • Feb 2016
            • 2771

            You wiped out everything to consider when you wrote " in the Genesis myth " in the 2nd paragraph. Genesis IS NOT a myth. I have no further comment.

            Psalm 1

            Comment

            • #7
              sfpcservice
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 1879

              Originally posted by mossy
              God left 2 children and a devious talking snake alone in a house with a burning stove after telling the kids not to touch the amazingly awesome burning stove. They do what ignorant kids do and touch the stove because they are dumb kids. God comes back and kicks the kids out of the house for touching the stove then because he is a loving God he decides all future generations of humans need to be punished because the 2 original kids touched that stove.

              And, no...i don't believe any of it.
              What do you believe?
              sigpic


              John 14:6

              Comment

              • #8
                CVShooter
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2017
                • 1234

                Originally posted by Garand Hunter
                You wiped out everything to consider when you wrote " in the Genesis myth " in the 2nd paragraph. Genesis IS NOT a myth. I have no further comment.

                Psalm 1
                You're funny.

                From Google:
                Myth, noun:
                1. a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events."

                Of course it's a myth. Even if you believe it to be factually true (history in the modern sense), it is still a myth. But since it is not modern history, you're missing out on a lot of depth if you believe it to be factually true. That is, of course, just my opinion.

                So I'm guessing that you take it at face-value with no deeper complexity than that?

                Comment

                • #9
                  Kokopelli
                  Veteran Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 3387

                  Take God at His word

                  Originally posted by CVShooter

                  Adam and Eve were forbidden to touch or eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
                  If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    mossy
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 7319

                    Originally posted by sfpcservice
                    What do you believe?
                    I'm a buddhist, I dont believe in the idea of "original sin" and a god punishing all of humanity for the actions of 2 people.

                    Humans are not born evil and sinful, we are born ignorant. Some choose to seek out and follow the correct path while others choose to delight in their ignorance and remain in the cycle of Samara.
                    best troll thread in calguns history
                    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=406739



                    burn the circus down cuz the world is full of clowns

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      RAMCLAP
                      Veteran Member
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 2869

                      Originally posted by mossy
                      I'm a buddhist, I dont believe in the idea of "original sin" and a god punishing all of humanity for the actions of 2 people.

                      Humans are not born evil and sinful, we are born ignorant. Some choose to seek out and follow the correct path while others choose to delight in their ignorance and remain in the cycle of Samara.
                      This is most incorrect. Babies only care about themselves. As they grow they will continue in this way until it is corrected out of them. They lie, chat and steal until they are completely taught not to. It is perfectly natural for humans to be bad. Unless there is anoth path pointed out to them they do not know there is another path. Therefore, humans are born evil.
                      Psalm 103
                      Mojave Lever Crew

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        CVShooter
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2017
                        • 1234

                        Originally posted by RAMCLAP
                        This is most incorrect. Babies only care about themselves. As they grow they will continue in this way until it is corrected out of them. They lie, chat and steal until they are completely taught not to. It is perfectly natural for humans to be bad. Unless there is anoth path pointed out to them they do not know there is another path. Therefore, humans are born evil.
                        If that were true, then humans wouldn't be social creatures. We'd all live as hermits, either attacking or mating (or mating then attacking, or attacking then mating) with little in between. But here we are, as tribal and cooperative as ever. Babies are selfish little creatures, for sure. But they're surprisingly cooperative and empathetic as well. I don't think our nature lies in one extreme or the other. We are all squarely both at the same time.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          billvau
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2016
                          • 864

                          Originally posted by RAMCLAP
                          This is most incorrect. Babies only care about themselves. As they grow they will continue in this way until it is corrected out of them. They lie, chat and steal until they are completely taught not to. It is perfectly natural for humans to be bad. Unless there is anoth path pointed out to them they do not know there is another path. Therefore, humans are born evil.
                          Nothing worse than a baby that "chats" too much! I know what you meant, but it made me smile!

                          God bless,
                          Bill
                          Pastor Bill

                          "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            RAMCLAP
                            Veteran Member
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 2869

                            Originally posted by CVShooter
                            If that were true, then humans wouldn't be social creatures. We'd all live as hermits, either attacking or mating (or mating then attacking, or attacking then mating) with little in between. But here we are, as tribal and cooperative as ever. Babies are selfish little creatures, for sure. But they're surprisingly cooperative and empathetic as well. I don't think our nature lies in one extreme or the other. We are all squarely both at the same time.
                            No. We quickly break down into tribes. The strongest meanest one always becomes the leader. And that tribe looks to dominate all of the other tribes. The Europeans did the same after they had made civilizations in different ways. But when they came to the new world it was quickly recognized in the natives. Chiefs striving to be chiefs took war parties to savage other tribes and back and forth. Humans don't have a good track record. We are quite evil.
                            Psalm 103
                            Mojave Lever Crew

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              RAMCLAP
                              Veteran Member
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 2869

                              Originally posted by billvau
                              Nothing worse than a baby that "chats" too much! I know what you meant, but it made me smile!

                              God bless,
                              Bill
                              Yeah. Fat fingers and auto correct are a bad team.
                              Psalm 103
                              Mojave Lever Crew

                              Comment

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