Checked out a new church today

[Just Dave]

They seem pretty solid and are offering home security and gun safety courses, that's an extra bonus

[CoopsDad]

Is it in Norco?

[RAMCLAP]

What is their confession of faith?

[Just Dave]

It's a Calvary in San Diego county

[WASR10]

I attended a congregation for a short while that had archery and marksmanship as youth group activities, and the pastor helped several people in getting their CCW's. Fairly good ministry; encourage such personal responsibility.

[Just Dave]

We went back today the Pastor does an expository verse by verse teaching (my other church moved away from this about 4 years ago) and they have a shooting club.

Shooting club...Nice!

[TomMcC]

Hello Dave

Since it's a Calvary Chapel, would you agree with it's Arminianism, Dispensational Pre-millennialism, Moses model of church government, form of worship including celebrating the Romish holy days of Christmas and Easter, their denial that they are a denomination, and form of church disciple?

[RAMCLAP]

Hey Tom. I know that you are addressing Dave. However, your post is a bit confusing to me. I know things get lost in short posts but I can't tell if yours is a question or an accusation. Seems a bit hostile to me. I'm no big fan of Calvary but would you please clarify your question for better understanding?

[TomMcC]

Hey Tom. I know that you are addressing Dave. However, your post is a bit confusing to me. I know things get lost in short posts but I can't tell if yours is a question or an accusation. Seems a bit hostile to me. I'm no big fan of Calvary but would you please clarify your question for better understanding?

I mean no hostility. I just try to be very plain and up front.

In my life I have had to examine my own doctrine and understanding of Christ's church, this led me to never assume that some established church actually knew what they were doing. A church full of seemingly nice people might be teaching some pretty questionable things or outright heresy. It's my hope that people really analyze what a church believes and why. Why do they do the things that they do, and should I get on board with them?

It is my view that the protestant church (or evangelicalism) is in serious trouble and has been that way for some 450 years.

[Just Dave]

No worries Tom.
I believe what the Bible says from Genesis to Revelation
As far as church manor and customs go I don't get to wrapped up in that but to effectively reach out to non-believers celebrating the birth of Christ (Christmas), the Passover and Resurrection using the prevailing language of the culture would make sense.

Calvinism or Arminianism? Myself like just about every person I know refuse to get pigeonholed into two different camps.
I've never seen Calvary take a stance of ether one.

Dispensational Pre-millennialism? Yes, only because it's what the Bible teaches.

Moses model? Yup, if we didn't use the Moses model we'd be a denomination. This is the reason why we are moving away from one Calvary to another..They're not all the same.

Moses model within an individual church works well, Paul sent Titus to Crete to put things in order because the church in Crete was a disorderly mess.
The pastoral epistles (1st, 2nd Timothy and Titus) clearly demonstrates that God (who is not the author of confusion) wants structure.

[wpage]

Try all the 7 churchs they have good things to offer...

[TomMcC]

Try all the 7 churchs they have good things to offer...

What are the 7 churches you refer to? Is this a reference to the book of Revelation?

[Just Dave]

The Moses model is just a way to manage big projects.
You delegate duties and responsibilities to others.

Exodus 18:13-23

13 The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. 14 When his father-in-law saw all that Moses was doing for the people, he said, “What is this you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge, while all these people stand around you from morning till evening?”

15 Moses answered him, “Because the people come to me to seek God’s will. 16 Whenever they have a dispute, it is brought to me, and I decide between the parties and inform them of God’s decrees and instructions.”

17 Moses’ father-in-law replied, “What you are doing is not good. 18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone. 19 Listen now to me and I will give you some advice, and may God be with you. You must be the people’s representative before God and bring their disputes to him. 20 Teach them his decrees and instructions, and show them the way they are to live and how they are to behave. 21 But select capable men from all the people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 22 Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. 23 If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied.”

When you talk Moses model this is what I think about within a church

[Just Dave]

Try all the 7 churchs they have good things to offer...

The church of brotherly love is the best

[TomMcC]

The Moses model is just a way to manage big projects.
You delegate duties and responsibilities to others.

Exodus 18:13-23



When you talk Moses model this is what I think about within a church

Moses was a prophet, was Chuck Smith and those that came after him? Who was Chuck Smith held accountable to? And could he have been removed? Was the Exodus an extraordinary event that was not to be the model for the NT church? Does the Apostles deaths have anything to do with how the church was to be governed? Does Acts 15 tells us anything about the NT church government? Is a pastor more powerful than an elder? Was Chuck Smith really just another pope, but on a smaller scale?