Domestic Violence

[DevilDawgJJ]

Why is this considered the most "dangerous" call to take? I've herd this a few times before...I would think/believe pulling over a vehicle for a violation would be, but I don't live in your world.

Any insight on this? Before I fall asleep tonight, thank you for sharing your experience!

[RedVines]

Because all the emotions involved in a domestic situation make people do crazy, irrational, desperate, violent things.

[mixicus]

Redvines has it.

They're intensely personal and emotional with dramatic effects on the involved parties and associated family and friends. Unlike non-DV assaults, a DV call is likely not the first instance of violence and has significant history for those involved. These are the calls where a subject goes from victim to assaulting/battering the responding officers when they go to arrest the other party.

Car stops have their own dangers but there's "only a chance" you've stopped a bad guy. In a DV at least one party has demonstrated their willingness to use violence on a loved one. If they are able to do that to a beloved family member, what are they willing to do to a stranger. Many instances have both DV parties still present or in the immediate area.

[AdiosKali]

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/flagstaff-police-officer-shot-killed-in-dv-confrontation/article_043a8d3c-8b93-5bef-b8f1-01243915c460.html

Flagstaff Officer killed last night investigating DV.

[WyattandDoc]

What RedVines said....Plus there is usually alcohol involved which amplifies everything he mentioned.

[SDDAVE56]

You never know when the "victim" will jump your stuff as you hook up the "suspect".

[RickD427]

Why is this considered the most "dangerous" call to take? I've herd this a few times before...I would think/believe pulling over a vehicle for a violation would be, but I don't live in your world.

Any insight on this? Before I fall asleep tonight, thank you for sharing your experience!

This is one of the very few instances where I agree with all of the prior posters.

There are also three additional points that I'd like to add:

1) Control - In most other "High Risk" calls, officers have the ability to take control measures appropriate to the call. If I'm handling a "Armed Robbery" call, and I arrive at the location while the suspect is still there (I know, it's a "pipe dream", but its my hypothetical), I can pretty much detain everyone at shotgun -point, prone them out, and then determine their role in a slow, safe, and methodical way. It looks to me like you're a Marine (If so, thanks). The Marine Corps often done very impressive things in difficult circumstances. The key to success is in maintaining very effective control over the environment. It's no different when responding to difficult calls.

2) "Turf" - There is a great advantage in having ownership and knowledge of the space that you're working in. That benefit is just as much psychological as it is physical. When we respond to a DV call, we're almost always on someone else's "turf".

3) State of Mind - I've never been really great at the physical combat side of law enforcement. It's probably my greatest weakness. But one of my biggest surprises from the fights that I have gotten into, is that easiest (if there is a such a thing) has been with the more "thuggish" of the street (or jail) crowd. When all was said and done, the "fight" was more about maintaining appearances. Once the suspect was sure about going to jail, the fight was usually over. That's a really dangerous mind-set to allow to develop because you very easily can get in over your head. I think the real bottom line was the crook knew that he was crook and was acting the part. The most extreme fights that I've gotten into were with folks who thought they had the moral right (this one applies to both physical, and procedural, fights) or those fights where some amount of panic had taken over. The latter is usually the case with DV related fights.

[cruising7388]

This is one of the very few instances where I agree with all of the prior posters.

There are also three additional points that I'd like to add:

1) Control - In most other "High Risk" calls, officers have the ability to take control measures appropriate to the call. If I'm handling a "Armed Robbery" call, and I arrive at the location while the suspect is still there (I know, it's a "pipe dream", but its my hypothetical), I can pretty much detain everyone at shotgun -point, prone them out, and then determine their role in a slow, safe, and methodical way. It looks to me like you're a Marine (If so, thanks). The Marine Corps often done very impressive things in difficult circumstances. The key to success is in maintaining very effective control over the environment. It's no different when responding to difficult calls.

2) "Turf" - There is a great advantage in having ownership and knowledge of the space that you're working in. That benefit is just as much psychological as it is physical. When we respond to a DV call, we're almost always on someone else's "turf".

3) State of Mind - I've never been really great at the physical combat side of law enforcement. It's probably my greatest weakness. But one of my biggest surprises from the fights that I have gotten into, is that easiest (if there is a such a thing) has been with the more "thuggish" of the street (or jail) crowd. When all was said and done, the "fight" was more about maintaining appearances. Once the suspect was sure about going to jail, the fight was usually over. That's a really dangerous mind-set to allow to develop because you very easily can get in over your head. I think the real bottom line was the crook knew that he was crook and was acting the part. The most extreme fights that I've gotten into were with folks who thought they had the moral right (this one applies to both physical, and procedural, fights) or those fights where some amount of panic had taken over. The latter is usually the case with DV related fights.

A remarkable post. Any LEO that had or has you as a training officer is very fortunate indeed.

[1CavScout]

This is one of the very few instances where I agree with all of the prior posters.

There are also three additional points that I'd like to add:

1) Control - In most other "High Risk" calls, officers have the ability to take control measures appropriate to the call. If I'm handling a "Armed Robbery" call, and I arrive at the location while the suspect is still there (I know, it's a "pipe dream", but its my hypothetical), I can pretty much detain everyone at shotgun -point, prone them out, and then determine their role in a slow, safe, and methodical way. It looks to me like you're a Marine (If so, thanks). The Marine Corps often done very impressive things in difficult circumstances. The key to success is in maintaining very effective control over the environment. It's no different when responding to difficult calls.

2) "Turf" - There is a great advantage in having ownership and knowledge of the space that you're working in. That benefit is just as much psychological as it is physical. When we respond to a DV call, we're almost always on someone else's "turf".

3) State of Mind - I've never been really great at the physical combat side of law enforcement. It's probably my greatest weakness. But one of my biggest surprises from the fights that I have gotten into, is that easiest (if there is a such a thing) has been with the more "thuggish" of the street (or jail) crowd. When all was said and done, the "fight" was more about maintaining appearances. Once the suspect was sure about going to jail, the fight was usually over. That's a really dangerous mind-set to allow to develop because you very easily can get in over your head. I think the real bottom line was the crook knew that he was crook and was acting the part. The most extreme fights that I've gotten into were with folks who thought they had the moral right (this one applies to both physical, and procedural, fights) or those fights where some amount of panic had taken over. The latter is usually the case with DV related fights.

Great post. I would also add that most of the time they know you are coming. The reporting person is often one of the involved parties. If they have decided they are going to fight, they have plenty of time to get prepared before you get there.

[micro911]

They can both turn on you, and the family can turn on you, too.

[55chevypost]

This is one of the very few instances where I agree with all of the prior posters.

There are also three additional points that I'd like to add:

1) Control - In most other "High Risk" calls, officers have the ability to take control measures appropriate to the call. If I'm handling a "Armed Robbery" call, and I arrive at the location while the suspect is still there (I know, it's a "pipe dream", but its my hypothetical), I can pretty much detain everyone at shotgun -point, prone them out, and then determine their role in a slow, safe, and methodical way. It looks to me like you're a Marine (If so, thanks). The Marine Corps often done very impressive things in difficult circumstances. The key to success is in maintaining very effective control over the environment. It's no different when responding to difficult calls.

2) "Turf" - There is a great advantage in having ownership and knowledge of the space that you're working in. That benefit is just as much psychological as it is physical. When we respond to a DV call, we're almost always on someone else's "turf".

3) State of Mind - I've never been really great at the physical combat side of law enforcement. It's probably my greatest weakness. But one of my biggest surprises from the fights that I have gotten into, is that easiest (if there is a such a thing) has been with the more "thuggish" of the street (or jail) crowd. When all was said and done, the "fight" was more about maintaining appearances. Once the suspect was sure about going to jail, the fight was usually over. That's a really dangerous mind-set to allow to develop because you very easily can get in over your head. I think the real bottom line was the crook knew that he was crook and was acting the part. The most extreme fights that I've gotten into were with folks who thought they had the moral right (this one applies to both physical, and procedural, fights) or those fights where some amount of panic had taken over. The latter is usually the case with DV related fights.

Well said brother.

[gblacksmith]

This is one of the very few instances where I agree with all of the prior posters.

There are also three additional points that I'd like to add:

1) Control - In most other "High Risk" calls, officers have the ability to take control measures appropriate to the call. If I'm handling a "Armed Robbery" call, and I arrive at the location while the suspect is still there (I know, it's a "pipe dream", but its my hypothetical), I can pretty much detain everyone at shotgun -point, prone them out, and then determine their role in a slow, safe, and methodical way. It looks to me like you're a Marine (If so, thanks). The Marine Corps often done very impressive things in difficult circumstances. The key to success is in maintaining very effective control over the environment. It's no different when responding to difficult calls.

2) "Turf" - There is a great advantage in having ownership and knowledge of the space that you're working in. That benefit is just as much psychological as it is physical. When we respond to a DV call, we're almost always on someone else's "turf".

3) State of Mind - I've never been really great at the physical combat side of law enforcement. It's probably my greatest weakness. But one of my biggest surprises from the fights that I have gotten into, is that easiest (if there is a such a thing) has been with the more "thuggish" of the street (or jail) crowd. When all was said and done, the "fight" was more about maintaining appearances. Once the suspect was sure about going to jail, the fight was usually over. That's a really dangerous mind-set to allow to develop because you very easily can get in over your head. I think the real bottom line was the crook knew that he was crook and was acting the part. The most extreme fights that I've gotten into were with folks who thought they had the moral right (this one applies to both physical, and procedural, fights) or those fights where some amount of panic had taken over. The latter is usually the case with DV related fights.

+1 on this...well said. Often, the call has multiple participants, any of whom can turn on you in a flash, especially if you are "hurting" a person they feel the need to protect. Often, you have NO allies on such calls. The best course is to respond with back up and be prepared to take ownership of the scenario ASAP and communicate to combative people that you will not tolerate assaultive behavior, without heating up the situation any more than it already is.

Its also a good idea to keep 'em out of the kitchen!.....knives can be a problem.

I heard of one case in upstate NY where a deputy responded solo to a DV call and arrived to find the female dweller so bloody she looked like she had been skinned alive. She had been beaten and was barely conscious. Male in res decides to fight it out and deputy barely overcomes the guy, but manages to get him cuffed after battle royal in living room. He is taking male to car when male decide to start fighting again, in cuffs. Deputy is dragging guy down stairs when he feels a pounding on his back. Turns to find beaten female trying to stick an icepick in his back. She failed due to her previous trauma and fact she was too weak to get icepick through deputy's vest. Deputy had to overcome female and arrest her as well w/o backup. Deputy had rep as formidable guy.

[1CavScout]

DV calls can get crazy. I had a guy barricade himself in a room (while we were responding) by using a portable screw gun and drywall screws. He screwed the door to the frame with over 100 screws. We had to knock out the door frame with the door attached to get to him.