CA departments that still use 9mm?

[micro911]

If anyone care to know what type of bullets killed most people based on my experience with bullets recovered during autopsy, they are 22LR LRN, 38 Special LRN, 9mm Luger FMJ. How soon they died? I don't know. I just know when I received the bullets, these are the vast majority of bullets. I rarely see "premium" bullets.

[19K]

If anyone care to know what type of bullets killed most people based on my experience with bullets recovered during autopsy, they are 22LR LRN, 38 Special LRN, 9mm Luger FMJ. How soon they died? I don't know. I just know when I received the bullets, these are the vast majority of bullets. I rarely see "premium" bullets.

How many bullets or wounds average? Shot placement?

With people who don't know anything about firearms or ammunition, it's easier to justify spending $14 for 50 rounds vs $25 for 20
I've heard many people ask if a FMJ will stop a person, obviously it will. So they buy the cheaper stuff.
Or they are just working with whatever the gun (assuming its stolen)came with

[retired]

Buying ammo for personally owned defensive weapon, my choice would not be based solely upon what a local PD uses. You have to remember that department issued ammo is purchased based upon a bid process, and may or may not be the best available. I can only speak for my experience, and the decision on what to buy was not made by the "gun guys" as much as the "bottom line budget guys". We were given amount X and did the best we could within that money. We usually just ended up buying off the state contract price, best out there? Who's to say for sure, but it was within the budget.

Sure look at what is being used, but also do your own research, what's right for a full size duty weapon may not be what's right for a concealed carry piece.

We were told my former dept. (LASD) they tested a lot of ammo and determined the Ranger Talon were the best and that is what they went with when we transitioned from our S&W revolvers to the Beretta 92f in late 1989.. It was only when the negative comments made the news about the "evil" Black Talons (I still have a few) that the dept. changed to the SXT Rangers.

I don't know what proof you have ptmn and I'm not trying to start an argument by any means, but as far as I know, LASD still uses the 147 grain and has done so since 1989.

SFShep, you should go to tacticalforums.com and read Dr. Gary Roberts' report on various ammo rounds and calibers. You will have to do a search, since it is probably in the archives by now. You do NOT want to use Hydra Shok ammo. It was considered outdated by Roberts years ago due to its lack of penetration in denim. The Federal HST ammo replaced it and it performs much better than the Hydrashok ammo

Hope this helps.

[scootle]

Here is where DocGKR frequents these days, I believe. Good info regardless.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?t=4337

[zack_trp1911]

Watch the gel tests for different 9mm on YouTube or test your own on a gel block. You can cover it with denim and other clothing to test out if you have access to a range or BLM...it's fun. And making gel is super easy.

[micro911]

How many bullets or wounds average? Shot placement?

Sometimes I see one lonely 22LR bullet, sometimes I see several different caliber bullets from one dead body. There is no average, but it looks to me that it is usually less than 3 shots.

[dogcatcher]

With modern defensive ammo technology, the effective difference in caliber performance is moot. My department just re-authorized carry of 9mm. Previously only 40 and 45 were approved for duty.

[Johnny Utah]

CA departments that still use 9mm?

FWIW- I was told that the El Dorado County SO went back to 9mm, but unknown what exact firearm or ammo used.

Question for "retired"- In 1989, you went from a revolver to the 92FS, did you get to buy the revolver? And/or buy the 92FS after retirement?

[QXSOUP]

Sacramento Sheriff just reverted back to 9mm late last year as well.

[funk_drum]

Great thread. I use 9mm outside my home. Was considering .40 for bed side. Why? The 'impression' a .40 has more 'stopping' power. Why then carry 9? Cheaper ammo=more practice. From ballistic charts I've read the 357 mag seems to have muzzle energy...whatever that means.

I like the idea of making some gel blobs and trying different ammo.

Be interested in see what LEO's would carry if they could carry anything they wanted...within reason...caliber wise.

[scootle]

It's not CA, but I'm sure most are aware of the recent switch (back) to 9mm issue for the FBI too... that's a fairly large agency.

I am pretty sure that LAPD is back to 9mm as well after some time spent with .40SW. They still allow officers to carry .40 and .45 on approved weapons as well.

I encourage everyone to review the posts by DocGKR that are now archived over on pistol-forum.com. It's very good info. Of particular note is this one, regarding older JHP designs:

Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

[Frotz]

About a year ago, the Bakersfield Police Dept said that they were going back to 9mm.

[ptmn]

For "retired" post of: "I don't know what proof you have ptmn and I'm not trying to start an argument by any means, but as far as I know, LASD still uses the 147 grain and has done so since 1989."

I'm not sure how you mixed up my,statement in post #13 of DOE SWAT using 9mm Federal 9BP 115gr JHP, with LAPD using it. My I based my statement off of the fact I was on the US Dept of Energy SWAT team at LLL and that was what we used until DOE switched to 40 cal.

[funk_drum]

Are these departments going back to 9mm doing it because it's cheaper and the combination of better ammo and more rounds makes up for any perceived lack of punch? Is it just better now?

[scootle]

Are these departments going back to 9mm doing it because it's cheaper and the combination of better ammo and more rounds makes up for any perceived lack of punch? Is it just better now?

The FBI justification for their switch back to 9mm will provide the answers you seek.