Do cops really use these?

[Gawernator]

Hello all - I read the Defense News Early Bird Brief most days, and thought some LEO might find this article interesting! http://m.govexec.com/federal-news/fe...itial-continue

So do LEO really use/need all that equipment? Do you think some of it is fraud/misuse or waste? Helicopters make sense, why grenade launchers? Lol. My hypothesis for the mine resistant vehicles is that LE purchased them as surplus from DoD.

I actually thought this article was a little funny. Haha. Being in the military I understand how the equipment is used but not sure how LEO employs it?

[Samuelx]

So do LEO really use/need all that equipment?

You'd have to ask the specific agencies about the specific equipment.

Do you think some of it is fraud/misuse or waste?

Fraud? How, if the equipment is being donated/given??? Waste? 1. First you'd need to know where the equipment went or was used for. 2. "wasted" is a subjective term.

Helicopters make sense, why grenade launchers?

Again you'd have to ask the agencies who received them. JFYI, grenade launchers may also be used to fire less lethal munitions.

Lol. My hypothesis for the mine resistant vehicles is that LE purchased them as surplus from DoD.

Nice to have when more and more BG rounds are going through and through standard LEO sedans and SUVs...

I actually thought this article was a little funny. Haha. Being in the military I understand how the equipment is used but not sure how LEO employs it?

embedded...

[Ron-Solo]

Grenade launchers are used to fire tear gas.

The article was a bit biased. They knocked San Diego for getting cold weather gear and showed a summer photo of the beach. San Diego has mountains in the east and does get cold weather.

[Shadowdrop]

The values are just a number. All of this equipment was DONATED to departments. As in, free. That article incorrectly implies tax dollars were used to obtain those items. That is false.

[Gawernator]

I see it's donated from the Law Enforcement Support Office which is part of the Defense Logistic Agency (DLA) I'm surprised they highlighted such a biased article.

I want a MRAP

[hey_scooter]

My hypothesis for the mine resistant vehicles is that LE purchased them as surplus from DoD.

Mine resistant was used in this article to fool you. It basically means up armored. Which I feel like is a common place with larger departments these days.

I want a MRAP

Nah. Harder to maintain than you think; hopefully receiving departments budgeted for the extra costs associated with these.

[3006]

What would 4.5 mm rifles be good for slo county got bunch?

[johnthomas]

The values are just a number. All of this equipment was DONATED to departments. As in, free. That article incorrectly implies tax dollars were used to obtain those items. That is false.

So, who paid for these items for the military. Are you trying to say tax dollars were never used to buy this equipment meant for the military and then given away?

All this attention is mute anyway. It isn't going to change and serves to put the American people on notice that when the Government decides to go red all the way, the local Governments are equipped and willing to use what ever they want to.

[mixicus]

Journalistically, this article is poor. It is filled with errors that even 3 minutes of Google could address. It is a one sided slam piece with partial and at time wrong info. But here’s a few comments…

It appears all the material detailed in the article comes from the DoD 1033 program. This is a program under which surplus DoD property is transferred to local law enforcement. LE agencies do not purchase the equipment, it is transferred free of charge. If there are concerns about fraud/waste for a $180 hammer, the proper discussion would involve DoD purchasing well upstream and well before the items get to the 1033 program. LEA’s are taking advantage of free useful gear in a time (last 6 years) of shrinking budgets.

As for some of the items, here are a few thoughts.

Grenade launchers are actually used to deploy various gas (CS/CN), direct and indirect impact less lethal munitions. This is a long established tactic for barricaded suspects and/or crowd control. Unfortunately, the media puts this out like the PD’s are getting ready to drop 40mm HE rounds on citizens.

The fishing boat (no comment in the article on the size) for the county in Maine. Taking a quick look at a map of that county, it appears it has significant waterways and lakes. That boat is probably going to be used for a maritime enforcement, search and rescue and evidence recovery. They may equip it with fire fighting apparatus (OCSD does this in OC harbors).

MRAP’s provide bullet resistant vehicle for no capital outlay. Typically, an agency or joint powers agreement would need to purchase something like a Bearcat for $250,000 or buy an old bank armored car to have the same capability. As to how an MRAP is used, it provides a safer option to evacuate citizens, rescue downed officers, station a CNT/HNT team close to an incident for better comms with a suspect, and allow for safer movement around an active incident.

Cold weather underwear to San Diego County. Don’t know the specs on the shorts but SD county does have mountains over 6,000 ft which gets cold. Over kill…maybe but it’ll keep SAR or the deputies warm while they are working. They may also be issued to the dive team to wear under the dry suits.

The Ford Explore entry is ridiculous on the writer’s part. The writer admits it’s reasonable that the dept could use a SUV. His issue is with the cost. The dept ISN'T paying for it, it’s transferred for free under the 1033 program. If the feds have the wrong book value, how does it make it an “insane thing” to transfer to local LE’s?

At the end of the article, the writer asks, “Does Brevard County have a trained helicopter mechanic for its 58 helicopters?” I’m guessing it’s a reference to Brevard County, FL. A look at the sheriff’s aviation page indicates they have 4 helicopters not 53 (or is it 58, both numbers are referenced in the article?). Maybe the writer got confused because the helicopters are OH-58’s. BTW: they do actually have 2 mechanics.

[Gawernator]

Mine resistant was used in this article to fool you. It basically means up armored. Which I feel like is a common place with larger departments these days.



Nah. Harder to maintain than you think; hopefully receiving departments budgeted for the extra costs associated with these.

You do make a great point about operating costs. If LE agencies are receiving this high speed equipment without the training to use and maintain it, and the budget to keep everything up to spec then it's a waste... Or even dangerous?

I think of it like certain countries that have old soviet SAM (surface-to-air missile) systems. They have the batteries in place but we know there's a good chance they wouldn't even work anymore if they tried to fire against us. Lol

[Gawernator]

Thanks for your response! Makes perfect sense. Your reaction to the article is probably how I react when I see slam or sensationalized articles against the US Intelligence Community.

The way the article was written I imagined Contra Costa county cops getting M203 grenade launchers attached to M16's to blow us/things up ... Lol

And the reason for inflated costs I can almost guarantee is that it was bought through GSA. HUGE mark ups! This really gets complicated. Sometimes numbers are fudged just to make it seem like we are spending more money, because if you don't use your budget you lose it. We just got a couple laptops at my command.. I signed for them at almost $7,000. If you bought them yourself you would pay only $1,300 each however. Mark-up.

[P5Ret]

Let's not forget that the 1033 program is not something new either. It actually dates back to the late 1940's. As far as maintenance on an MRAP you really can't compare the cost's of the military usage to le usage. The military is using them in area's where the idea of a paved road is basically non-existent, and they are using them daily. Local le on the other hand will use it rarely except training maybe once a month, and that will be on a paved road. I do find it ironic that most of the pictures of "armored military vehicles" are usually of a BearCat that was probably purchased directly from Lenco since they appear to be the le version of the truck.

[hey_scooter]

You do make a great point about operating costs. If LE agencies are receiving this high speed equipment without the training to use and maintain it, and the budget to keep everything up to spec then it's a waste... Or even dangerous?

I think of it like certain countries that have old soviet SAM (surface-to-air missile) systems. They have the batteries in place but we know there's a good chance they wouldn't even work anymore if they tried to fire against us. Lol

It's cost-benefit analysis for sure. An up armored vehicle can add great capability, but with that comes with costs of tires, parts, fluids, anything that could break just like a normal vehicle. Danger is real though, especially with vehicles that have high center of gravity. An MRAP is a great example, considering an MRAP roll over is a really REALLY bad day.

[Shadowdrop]

So, who paid for these items for the military. Are you trying to say tax dollars were never used to buy this equipment meant for the military and then given away?

There's no winning with some people. If LE's pay for it, it's a waste of taxpayer money. If LE's get it for free, it's a waste of taxpayer money. If the gov't sold it to other countries, we'd be supplying terrorists. If they kept it, it would rot in a storage yard and be a waste. What, exactly, would you like the gov't to do with all of this equipment?

All this attention is mute anyway. It isn't going to change and serves to put the American people on notice that when the Government decides to go red all the way, the local Governments are equipped and willing to use what ever they want to.

I recognize these words as English, but I am failing to understand what you are trying to say.

[Gawernator]

Red meaning communist?