Are Firefighters Considered Peace Officers For The Carry Exemption?

[Grayling14]

Here's the short story:

Someone I know works for a major southern California county as a rank and file firefighter (not arson investigator, etc.). One time when our group of friends met on a trip he was carrying a loaded handgun in a soft case in the back of his SUV with the luggage.

A debate arose regarding the legality of the transport. He stated that as a firefighter he is a sworn peace officer and has legal authority to carry. He cited a section of code that I cannot now remember.

I have done some research, and the closest section I have found is PC 830.37. The codes defining "Peace officer" specifically mention all of the usual suspects: police, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, etc. There are certain other included classes, such as: arson investigator, welfare fraud investigator, Investigation Division of the Employment Development Department, Contractors State License Board investigator, etc. (the list is long), but they all have the caveat of, "provided that the primary duty of these investigators shall be the enforcement of the provisions of law administered by (insert applicable title, division, chapter or section here)".

Who here is knowledgeable about this issue?

[Tacobandit]

No hes not

[Ron-Solo]

Taco is right.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Am I considered a fireman? LEO's in the field perform more EMS tasks than Firefighters perform LE tasks. By far.

[twinfin]

The typical firefighter no, but there are some firefighters who are also armed peace officers when their department has chosen to create such a program within their department. Those legally armed firefighters are precious few and far between. My wife was one until she retired.

[Siberian23]

I only know of 2 of those departments, it's considered public safety. Robert Park and Sunnyvale are public safety.

[Just-in]

I also know agencies such as Fremont have Tactical Medics. They are paramedics who are also sworn reserve officers. They attend a police academy and are called out for incidents. I saw it in the paper.

I once saw a CDF captain with a firearm at a class I had to take up in Sacramento for an unrelated job, I was always curious what his job was but I never asked. MYOB...

[billmaykafer]

NO!!!!!!!

[Dr Pete]

If a firefighter delivers a baby does that make him a Dr?

[Sacmedic]

Twinfin is correct. There are some fire agencies that appoint their own peace officers for arson investigation. These range from small ones such as mine to rather large ones like LA City, LA County, Sacramento City and Sacramento Metro Fire. The PC section is 830.37.

The CAL FIRE Captain you saw was most likely an arson investigator assigned to their Prevention Bureau. They are appointed under PC 830.2. CAL FIRE has approximately 400-450 of these folks statewide.

[Sacmedic]

I only know of 2 of those departments, it's considered public safety. Robert Park and Sunnyvale are public safety.

Please see my post above. There are actually quite a few. Public Safety departments are different from fire agencies that may appoint peace officers as arson investigators. The PSD's are the primary law and fire agencies in their respective jurisdictions. Usually all of their staff will be 830.1 peace officers in addition to having fire qualifications.

[code_blue]

If they have not completed the CA POST Academy and have not been sworn in with an agency that they are either currently employed with or retired from then NO, they are not considered as Peace Officers.

There are two different kinds of Arson Investigators, Non-Sworn and Sworn. I'm sure the same applies to many other Investigator positions such as Dept of Insurance or Public Health and Safety.

Sworn Arson Investigators, CA Fire Marshals, CAL Fire LEO's are required to complete a POST Academy. Sergeant at Arms has recently entered the realm of sworn Peace Officer status and they too are required to complete a POST Academy.

PC 832 Arrest, Search, and Seizure along with PC 832 Firearms Familiarization qualifies you for the bear minimum requirements as a Peace Officer, however you are only sworn while on duty (Jail Guards and the like). They cannot carry while off duty without a CCW.


EDIT:

Wasn't Sunnyvale's FF's and LEO's one in the same at one point or still are? Dual duty and they switch off on schedule or something?

[Sacmedic]

If they have not completed the CA POST Academy and have not been sworn in with an agency that they are either currently employed with or retired from then NO, they are not considered as Peace Officers.

Please cite a code to back this up. The current PC 25900(b), for the purposes of carrying a loaded firearm in public, would seem to indicate otherwise. As you state below, the minimum required training, as spelled out in PC 832, is not necessarily a POST basic academy. There are hundreds of peace officer arson investigators statewide who have not attended a POST basic academy.

There are two different kinds of Arson Investigators, Non-Sworn and Sworn. I'm sure the same applies to many other Investigator positions such as Dept of Insurance or Public Health and Safety.

You are correct in that a fire investigator can either be a peace officer or not. Some are, some aren't. It varies by agency.

Sworn Arson Investigators, CA Fire Marshals, CAL Fire LEO's are required to complete a POST Academy. Sergeant at Arms has recently entered the realm of sworn Peace Officer status and they too are required to complete a POST Academy.

Again, please cite some reference or code for the above statement regarding "sworn arson investigators" and "CA Fire Marshals". Both are peace officers (PC 830.37 and PC 830.3, respectively) and most have not attended a POST basic academy. That fact doesn't change their status.

PC 832 Arrest, Search, and Seizure along with PC 832 Firearms Familiarization qualifies you for the bear minimum requirements as a Peace Officer, however you are only sworn while on duty (Jail Guards and the like). They cannot carry while off duty without a CCW.

Partially correct. The two halves of the PC 832 course are the bare minimum training that qualifies you to make arrests and carry firearms as a peace officer in California. This minimum applies to any non-POST reimbursed agency. POST agencies must send their peace officers to the basic academy. Most county jail guards are not peace officers and can only carry firearms on duty unless they have a CCW. State correctional officers are peace officers. Any person appointed as a peace officer and meeting the minimum training, psychological and background components outlined in applicable Penal or Government Code sections is just that, a peace officer. That status is what makes PC 25900(b) applicable.

Our state's CCW rules do not require those identified as peace officers to obtain a CCW in order to carry off duty. As a matter of fact, some probation agencies do not arm their DPO's. In many cases these folks stow their concealed firearm when they come on duty and put it back on when they leave. This is without any CCW. On the other hand, LEOSA requires that a qualified LEO carry a firearm at work, in addition to other requirements, in order to carry on its terms. Just depends on whether a person in these instances wishes to carry only in California or nation-wide.


EDIT:

Wasn't Sunnyvale's FF's and LEO's one in the same at one point or still are? Dual duty and they switch off on schedule or something?

Yes, they are dual-qualified and still rotate back and forth.

[Petro6golf]

Between answering domestic violence calls, burglar alarms, party disturbances and vehicle burglaries I get sent to the occasional house fire or medical aid call. Does that make me a fireman?

[CBR_rider]

No, he is most likely not (barring any of the special situations already mentioned).