Dealing with nuts on stops

[w55]

My kid has a few guys on his patrol that get pulled over on purpose. They start taping right away and asking him to cite laws, get the sheriff refuse show ID.

Its always minor stuff so he just says "have a nice day" instead of engaging them in a roadside civics debates.

Just wondering if you guys run into this also and if its best just not get into a pissing match over say a burned out taillight.

He works in a small socal town that's pretty low crime.

Thanks

[tyrist]

First he shouldn't have let them go. If they refuse to show ID (which is an additional violation) or sign the ticket then he should have booked them into jail and towed their car.

Second when somebody acts that way he should request an additional unit and or supervisor to the traffic stop.

He is making a huge mistake letting them go since it is training them in the belief that what they are doing is correct. When somebody shows attitude and non compliance they are suppose to get the maximum in enforcement with zero discretion.

[TRICKSTER]

First he shouldn't have let them go. If they refuse to show ID (which is an additional violation) or sign the ticket then he should have booked them into jail and towed their car.

Second when somebody acts that way he should request an additional unit and or supervisor to the traffic stop.

He is making a huge mistake letting them go since it is training them in the belief that what they are doing is correct. When somebody shows attitude and non compliance they are suppose to get the maximum in enforcement with zero discretion.

^This. There are some people out there that think that if they are enough of a pain in the arse that you will just let them go. Doing so just reinforces this behavior and makes it more difficult for the next officer that runs across them. If you have a legitimate traffic violation that they are stopped for and they refuse to show their license, it is no longer just a minor traffic violation, refusing to show your license upon request of a police officer is a separate crime. See 12951(b) CVC. a misdemeanor.

[w55]

Thanks guys.

[1CavScout]

Like was already stated, the driver must show a DL and sign the cite or they get booked (if they refuse to sign the cite) and their car towed. If passengers get involved in an attempt to disrupt the stop, call for another unit and warn them they are comiting a crime. I would remove the drive once I had cover, and if the passengers interfere they get hooked for 148(a)(1) pc.

Edit: We had a guy spend 18 days in a holding cell for refusing to sign a cite. He was taken to a judge daily, and it took him till day 18 until he decided to cooperate. He thought he could win, and found out the hard way he could not. All he had was a wood bench and a bed roll.

[1911su16b870]

24252(a) CVC Lighting equipment of required type, maintain in good working order.

12951(b) CVC The driver of a motor vehicle shall present his or her license for examination upon demand of a peace officer enforcing the provisions of this code.

12500(a) CVC A person may not drive a motor vehicle upon a highway, unless the person then holds a valid driver's license issued under this code, except those persons who are expressly exempted under this code.

LE can arrest the person for the above and tow the car. Drivers without proper licenses that LE can verify, should not be allowed to drive away. The vehicle can be towed as a result of the arrest.

Circumstances Permitting Removal [of vehicle/towing] 22651(h)(1) CVC When an officer arrests a person driving or in control of a vehicle for an alleged offense and the officer is, by this code or other law, required or permitted to take, and does take, the person into custody.

The way it plays out is determined by LE, but that decision can be helped or hurt by the behavior/attitude/demeanor of the detained/arrested person. From verbal warning to make sure that driver has a verified valid DL in possession to arrest/tow/appearance before a magistrate the next court session.

[Ritchie8719]

isn't a fixit ticket a hundred bucks now anyway?

[CinnamonBear723]

In this given scenario I would not let them tape me. People who are detained must comply with law enforcement. If someone uninvolved wishes to tape me then I'm all for it, but I think people who are detained should not be allowed to do anything except for sit on a curb with their ankles crossed; it's an officer safety thing, no distractions. Also I would fill every line of the citation and conduct a vehicle inspection. That type of behavior is dangerous and sets a bad precedent.

[Gnome]

First he shouldn't have let them go. If they refuse to show ID (which is an additional violation) or sign the ticket then he should have booked them into jail and towed their car.

Second when somebody acts that way he should request an additional unit and or supervisor to the traffic stop.

He is making a huge mistake letting them go since it is training them in the belief that what they are doing is correct. When somebody shows attitude and non compliance they are suppose to get the maximum in enforcement with zero discretion.

This. //Thread.

[micro911]

One time, I had a belligerent driver. I ended up writing 2 page ticket and towed his car. I try not to engage. I just do my thing and be done with it.

Once, I had a female driver who refused to sign the ticket. After I explained that she will go to jail and will see a judge the next day, she reluctantly signed it. As she drove off, she yelled, "kiss my a**!!". Being public service conscious, I had to respond, "Let me know when!!!"

[urbancommando]

Run into a sovern citizen sometimd ..those guys are a hoot

[TRICKSTER]

Run into a sovern citizen sometimd ..those guys are a hoot

Yep, even talked on into signing a Notice to Appear. I just explained that I was just doing what was required of my job and that I understood his position, but by taking the ticket to court and explaining his position to the judge, that he would have a chance to influence someone that really mattered and a courtroom full of people instead of just wasting a night in jail.

[P5Ret]

Yep, even talked on into signing a Notice to Appear. I just explained that I was just doing what was required of my job and that I understood his position, but by taking the ticket to court and explaining his position to the judge, that he would have a chance to influence someone that really mattered and a courtroom full of people instead of just wasting a night in jail.

you mean he actually talked to you? All I got was a 3x5 card handed out the window, with his "I'm not subject to the laws of the state" or whatever it was on it. He found out that he wasn't immune to stupidity when he tried to pull out into traffic and got sideswiped by a passing pick-up.

[code_blue]

These guys?

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens

[zack_trp1911]

If you get pulled over for a traffic violation, that's crime. You have legal justification to stop, ID, and take action (cite,arrest, ect)

Like everyone stated, letting them go makes them believe they are in the right, when they are not, and will lead them to believe they can keep getting away.

A good tactic is to remain calm, stay professional, and always have another unit or supervisor roll your way. And be confident!!. You are not obligated to request a supervisor if they are demanding one. Tell them to contact or go to the police station if they demand to speak with a supervisor. Take appropriate action, like I said just be confident and don't let stupid get to you, it takes you to their level when you shouldn't be.
You can always record the stop via audio or video so if a complain comes down the road you have more tools in your box.