Recording phone calls with LEO/detectives

[Dantedamean]

Long story short my mom has a DV RO against my dad, he's violated it several times but because of his past LEO career nothing ever comes of it.

My mom filed a police report for stalking recently, my question is this: is it legal to record the conversation with the LEOs/Detective/DA she talks to on the phone? Does she need to notify them she is doing so?

Thanks.

[mej16489]

In CA recording a phone conversation requires consent of all parties on the line.

Penal Code
632.
(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment. If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

[Heiko]

Aside from the above legal limitations, I would not respond well to someone wanting to record our telephone conversation considering they are the alleged victim. I would be suspicious of them and be wary of their potential for filing a complaint against me for some silly thing, especially if they feel like things aren't going their way and with DV/family issues/ROs, they aren't always what they seem according to the "victim".

That's just me though.

[Dantedamean]

In CA recording a phone conversation requires consent of all parties on the line.

Penal Code
632.
(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment. If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

Ok thanks, I didn't know if interactions with law enforcement were different or not.

[Che762x39]

Long story short my mom has a DV RO against my dad, he's violated it several times but because of his past LEO career nothing ever comes of it.

My mom filed a police report for stalking recently, ...

The way to resolve a DV with a former cop is call repeatly. If she keeps calling Bubba and Bubba was you Dad's best friend, d'oh

Talk to Bubba's supervisor, then Watch Commander, then Chief ... If you do not get satisfraction keep calling and add the Mayor, Congressperson, etc, etc.

The squeeky wheel gets the grease. So squeek! At my department that would not happen because we live to a much higher standard, saavy?

[philobeddoe]

ex parte recording illegal in CA

must inform other party they are being recorded



____________
ΜΟ;ΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ;

[RickD427]

Visit www.carlosmiller.com Cops have no reasonable expectation of privacy with performing public duties, so can be photographed etc.

This is true concerning the expectation of privacy in a public place, but also irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

PC 632 still controls where telephone (not in a public place) conversation are involved.

[Heiko]

Visit www.carlosmiller.com Cops have no reasonable expectation of privacy with performing public duties, so can be photographed etc.

We're talking about a person-to-person telephone call, not something happening on the streets in public view.

[oddjob]

OP,

Have your mom keep calling the local agency and document everything. Save the text messages, voice mails, notes, letters & etc. Have her contact the WEAVE type organization, victim witness group, or equivalent.

Che762x39 is quite correct in this matter. I would call the local councilperson, assembly person, congressperson.......Your mom should get the idea.

OP....How did your father violate the order?? Phone calls, unauthorized visits??

[Dantedamean]

OP,

Have your mom keep calling the local agency and document everything. Save the text messages, voice mails, notes, letters & etc. Have her contact the WEAVE type organization, victim witness group, or equivalent.

Che762x39 is quite correct in this matter. I would call the local councilperson, assembly person, congressperson.......Your mom should get the idea.

OP....How did your father violate the order?? Phone calls, unauthorized visits??

Ya, our next step is going to start making a lot of noise.

He keeps harassing her outside of divorce court, he's smart enough to not do anything like call her because of the phone records. He finds her in the hall when she's relatively alone and tries to strike up conversations, calls her names, and even threatened to kill her. The sheriff had to detain him one time because he was so angry. It's a long story, but ya this has been going on for two years. The harassment is only the most recent stuff. The fact he's not in jail yet shows no one has really done anything.

As far as the watch commander goes, the ones at west Covina were just as helpful as the officers I was arguing with. I'm not bashing, there was one helpful officer but that's another long story.

[9mmepiphany]

He keeps harassing her outside of divorce court, he's smart enough to not do anything like call her because of the phone records. He finds her in the hall when she's relatively alone and tries to strike up conversations, calls her names, and even threatened to kill her. The sheriff had to detain him one time because he was so angry. It's a long story, but ya this has been going on for two years. The harassment is only the most recent stuff. The fact he's not in jail yet shows no one has really done anything.

You may have to check local court rules, but there are some exceptions to R.O.s when attending Family Court hearings

[Caddis]

When you call a PD, most of the time your conversation is being recorded by them. Yes you can record public servants during the course of their duties and PC 632 is not applicable in the situation you described.

[RickD427]

When you call a PD, most of the time your conversation is being recorded by them. Yes you can record public servants during the course of their duties and PC 632 is not applicable in the situation you described.

Sir,

Can you provide a case citation to back this up? I beleive that you're mistaken here.

There have been court rulings that have clarified the right to record LEOs, however all of those cases have involved officers in public. None of the holdings that I am aware of have extended to private telephone conversations.

Until the scope of PC 632 is restricted by an authoritative ruling, it remains the law.

[DEPUTYBILL]

If these events are happening in the court house, you might want to inform the supervising bailiff in the court house so all the court officer staff are made aware of what is going on. It might help stop or help document the problem that can then be addressed by the judge.

[Caddis]

RickD427

There is no reported California case law on this issue, so there is no definitive judicial interpretation of this specific question.

I make this argument based on the fact LEO's get recorded all the time such as youtube videos during the course of their duties but of course most of these in are out in public but there are with some in very private locations where an assumption can be made, the officer had an expectation of privacy but there are no recorded cases of prosecution.

This issue has come up with traffic stops where the violator records the officer without permission. The defense is he/she was collecting evidence in a criminal matter. The argument is the OP appears unhappy with the service they were receiving from their local PD and it sounds as though they were attempting to gather evidence for a possible complaint.

So to answer your question, no there isn't a specific exception allowing the recording of public servants anywhere and anytime. The langauge of a codified statute and the actual enforcement of it based on the elements of the violation is what it comes down and those in the LE business know what I mean here. No one as far as I know has ever been prosecuted for recording LEOs. Although the statute is not a "specific intent" crime, I made my original statement based on the reality of how that law would be applied and the PC 632 cases I investigated based on real life experience. Never had the DA file one either because they have no jury appeal.

Thanks for calling me on it though and hope this clarifies what I meant and should have original said.