Kubatons?

[AA9MM]

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses [...] any metal knuckles
(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or
instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for
purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either
protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the
force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving
the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the
hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of
projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a
blow.

JW a LEOs opinion.. I have been advised both ways.. legal & illegal. In the last sentence above, the kubaton doesn't shield my hand as its not like brass knuckles in which I would insert my fingers into them. BUT I could see how a DA could argue it may help support the hand or fist, bc of 'fist packing' abilities. I understand your opinions are not legal advice, jw your perspectives. Thank you in advance.

[Eikbyrnir]

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses [...] any metal knuckles
(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or
instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for
purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either
protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the
force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving
the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the
hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of
projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a
blow.

JW a LEOs opinion.. I have been advised both ways.. legal & illegal. In the last sentence above, the kubaton doesn't shield my hand as its not like brass knuckles in which I would insert my fingers into them. BUT I could see how a DA could argue it may help support the hand or fist, bc of 'fist packing' abilities. I understand your opinions are not legal advice, jw your perspectives. Thank you in advance.

Weapons law PC's have changed as an FYI, what use to be the 12020 list is now different. Metal knuckles is PC 21810. Kubaton under 21810 I think would be fine, BUT, some hard *** might be able to make it fly under PC 22210.

PC 22210:

Except as provided in Section 22215 and Chapter 1
(commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person
in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports
into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives, lends, or possesses any leaded cane, or any instrument or
weapon of the kind commonly known as a billy, blackjack, sandbag,
sandclub, sap, or slungshot, is punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.

22215 is an exception for special police and security positions.

I personally wouldnt do anything with a Kubaton. I have friends that have them on their key rings, but another cop, or DA, could very well interpret the law in a different way.

[5shot]

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses [...] any metal knuckles
(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or
instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for
purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either
protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the
force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving
the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the
hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of
projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a
blow.

JW a LEOs opinion.. I have been advised both ways.. legal & illegal. In the last sentence above, the kubaton doesn't shield my hand as its not like brass knuckles in which I would insert my fingers into them. BUT I could see how a DA could argue it may help support the hand or fist, bc of 'fist packing' abilities. I understand your opinions are not legal advice, jw your perspectives. Thank you in advance.

If it cannot be "worn" on the hand, it is not "metal knuckles". Some D.A. may want to try and stretch the definition, but the one I worked for didn't since the definition clearly states that the weapon has to be "worn". Holding something and wearing something are totally different.
Kubatons cannot be used to strike like a billy, sap, etc., so don't fit that classification.

[Ron-Solo]

In 32 years of LE, I encountered many kubatons. I can think of. Single case where I, or another deputy, considered it a violation of 12020 PC. With would however, qualify as a weapon for someone on probation with a weapons restriction.

[TRICKSTER]

I have seen people arrested for kubatons (12020) by a certain agency in the SF Bay Area, but that was many years ago and I don't recall if the DA filed on it.

[tyrist]

I wouldn't say it falls under the hardened knuckle section. It would fall under the billy club section when keys are attached and it is intended to use as a flail.

[5shot]

I wouldn't say it falls under the hardened knuckle section. It would fall under the billy club section when keys are attached and it is intended to use as a flail.

Do you know of a specific case where a D.A. filed a case, or the AG gave a opinion that a self defense keychain (Kubaton, etc) is a prohibited weapon?

[Petro6golf]

As an LEO who I would like to think uses common sense and applys the law in the spirit and not the letter; There is no way I would attempt to jam up joe citizen cause I saw him with a Kubaton. A, the DA would never file on some tax paying job holding person with a kubaton on his key ring and B, why would I go out of my way to try to screw you over just because you have that in your possession? IMHO, this is used for probationers and bottom feeders who need to go to jail. Besides, how many people do you know that could effectively use a Kubation as a deadly or harmful weapon?

[tyrist]

Do you know of a specific case where a D.A. filed a case, or the AG gave a opinion that a self defense keychain (Kubaton, etc) is a prohibited weapon?

I am not personally aware of any but there are so many cases you will be doing research for awhile. I can tell you that I am aware of a conviction for a dirk/dagger on a screw driver though. Any item can fall under the illegal weapon section it's just how it's intended or actually used.

[TRICKSTER]

I am not personally aware of any but there are so many cases you will be doing research for awhile. I can tell you that I am aware of a conviction for a dirk/dagger on a screw driver though. Any item can fall under the illegal weapon section it's just how it's intended or actually used.

This. I got a 12020 conviction on a guy carrying a 20" piece of rusty pipe with electrical tape wrapped around one end. His lawyer tried to claim that it was being used as a cane because his 5'10" client had a bad knee.

[Eikbyrnir]

This. I got a 12020 conviction on a guy carrying a 20" piece of rusty pipe with electrical tape wrapped around one end. His lawyer tried to claim that it was being used as a cane because his 5'10" client had a bad knee.

Thats funny, they should have had him show the court how the hook used it as a cane.

[5shot]

I am not personally aware of any but there are so many cases you will be doing research for awhile. I can tell you that I am aware of a conviction for a dirk/dagger on a screw driver though. Any item can fall under the illegal weapon section it's just how it's intended or actually used.

Yes, that would be the case with just about any object used in a criminal assault. I have seen cases we prosecuted where "boots" or "shoes" were considered to be deadly weapons. Or a belt with a large buckle used in a assault was filed as a "slungshot".
But the question is whether "Kubatons" themselves are illegal. When I was a D.A. Investigator I was the martial arts and weapons expert for the office. I also worked some cases we prosecuted against businesses that manufactured/sold weapons. Our legal team (at the time) could not find any case law that defined self defense keychains (Kubaton, etc) as illegal weapons.
The one exception we found was for a variation that had two 2" sharpened prongs extending out the side of the main body. When gripped, the two prongs would stick out between the fingers and could be used to stab while punching. That type of weapon was specifically defined in the Penal Code.