Seizing the Weapons After an Incident:Your Thoughts & Experiences

[SilverTauron]

Rather than rely on the advice of the gun store commandos, I have decided to pose these questions to the LE community here directly:
Who decides whether or not a citizens gun is taken after a self defense incident?

How long and where would the weapon be stored during the case and legal proceedings?

And what will the LEA do at the conclusion of the case ? Will the police department bureaucracy release the firearm used to the owner without obstruction, or is cultural or official custom in most police agencies/public governments to deny return of the citizens' weapon by any legal means possible to ensure its destroyed at a scrapyard or "appropriated" by the boss?

I realize there won't be any universal answer to these questions, but any educated response from you LEO's out there is greatly appreciated.If the idea that Law Enforcement/City government would permanently seize one's gun is a myth, then ill carry whatever I have in my collection. Conversely if the policy regarding returning citizens' guns after an incident is "not a chance in he**" , ill be modifying my carry gun choices .

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[OldShooter32]

Rules of evidence would require that a chain of custody and secure storage be used. Disposition depends on adjudication -- just means a "not guilty" or dismissal would return the firearm to the defendant. If the court orders "destruction" it may be converted to LE use if it s fitting. (We had some nice S&W blank guns for K9 training!)
This doesn't mean that there won't be abuses and stumbling blocks by over-zealous anti2a types, or that some knuckle-dragged won't engrave a case number on the side of a collectors' piece. (Our department paid for more than one of those true idiot marks.) I am sure there are horror stories everywhere. Most police officers are woefully ignorant of firearms in general.

[solanoshooter]

After a self defense incident or any incident involving a firearm, the weapon WILL be taken and held as evidence until the case is adjudicated.

I know there are some hoops regarding DOJ that an owner must jump through before a firearm can be released from a LE agency to the owner. To be honest, our evidence people handle it. I'm not really sure what is involved.

[SVT-40]

Rather than rely on the advice of the gun store commandos, I have decided to pose these questions to the LE community here directly:
Who decides whether or not a citizens gun is taken after a self defense incident?

It's not "decided" it's a matter of gathering the best evidence available. Any object which is "evidence" in a matter is seized because of it's relevance to proving or disproving what occured and helping determine the truth.

How long and where would the weapon be stored during the case and legal proceeding?

It would be held until it was no longer needed for the matter. It would be held either in the evidence locker of the agency which seized it. If it had been entered into evidence at a court it could be held in that courts evidence storage facility, although in my experience courts usually don't like holding firearms and give them back to the seizing agency until a matter is concluded

And what will the LEA do at the conclusion of the case ? Will the police department bureaucracy release the firearm used to the owner without obstruction, or is cultural or official custom in most police agencies/public governments to deny return of the citizens' weapon by any legal means possible to ensure its destroyed at a scrapyard or "appropriated" by the boss?

The agency may not actually do anything, because they really have more important and pressing things to do. In fact once a gun or any piece of evidence enters a property room it's just one of the literally thousands and thousands of items held there.

Often the agency has no clue as to what a judge may determine to be the fate of a particular piece of evidence until the owner shows up and wants to reclaim it.

Regarding releasing firearms. Law enforcement agency's are prohibited by law from merely releasing a firearm back to it's owner without the owner submitting a Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) to the Calif DOJ, and the DOJ sending the owner a certificate which allows the agency to release the firearm.

I can't speak to what "most" agencies do. But I know from my experiences that at least the agency I worked for tried hard to return firearms to their lawful owners when ever possible. It made good sense because firearms are large objects and take up valuable room in any evidence storage facility.

I realize there won't be any universal answer to these questions, but any educated response from you LEO's out there is greatly appreciated.If the idea that Law Enforcement/City government would permanently seize one's gun is a myth, then ill carry whatever I have in my collection. Conversely if the policy regarding returning citizens' guns after an incident is "not a chance in he**" , ill be modifying my carry gun choices .

Thanks in advance for your responses.

If you use a firearm for self defense it's going to be gone for a long time. Not really because of anything the police have any control over. It's just a symptom of our lagging court system which in some cases can take years to have the matter come to trial or have a disposition.

Look upon any carry gun as a tool, which can be easily replaced if needed.

That's one of the reasons why Glocks are so popular for self defense. Extremely reliable, relatively inexpensive and easily replaced.

[oddjob]

How long and where would the weapon be stored during the case and legal proceedings?

As others have written....Basically as long as it takes........Besides criminal proceedings there is civil as well.

And what will the LEA do at the conclusion of the case ?

Return it to the owner via a court order assuming it was seized pursuant to a search warrant (which it probably was).

Will the police department bureaucracy release the firearm used to the owner without obstruction, or is cultural or official custom in most police agencies/public governments to deny return of the citizens' weapon by any legal means possible to ensure its destroyed at a scrapyard or "appropriated" by the boss?

Return it.

FYI......years ago there was a shooting. Suspect shoots officer, other officer returns fire and kills suspect. Suspect's handgun was taken as evidence. Year later suspect's wife wants the handgun back stating its hers since husband is dead (gun was DROS'ed to suspect). City attorney and the DA's office agree....Its a legal product used illegally, but none the less a legal product (I believe this is case law from a drug case). Court order signed, she filled out the paperwork and got the gun back (DROS'ed of course).

[cacop]

Rather than rely on the advice of the gun store commandos, I have decided to pose these questions to the LE community here directly:
Who decides whether or not a citizens gun is taken after a self defense incident?
In the end it is the DA requiring evidence of a a possible crime being held for examination. We want to hold onto it because we want to be able to say for certainy that X firearm fired Y bullets into person Z.

How long and where would the weapon be stored during the case and legal proceedings?Where would be police evidence, DA evidence, or DOJ lab during exam. How long depends on how long the case lasts. I know for our officers it is a minimum of 6 months. Recently though they have been trying to do it within a few weeks.

And what will the LEA do at the conclusion of the case ? Will the police department bureaucracy release the firearm used to the owner without obstruction, or is cultural or official custom in most police agencies/public governments to deny return of the citizens' weapon by any legal means possible to ensure its destroyed at a scrapyard or "appropriated" by the boss? We give it back pending a DOJ release. IT can take a couple of weeks/months depending on the backlog at DOJ. Remember this isn't an FFL you are dealing with.

I realize there won't be any universal answer to these questions, but any educated response from you LEO's out there is greatly appreciated.If the idea that Law Enforcement/City government would permanently seize one's gun is a myth, then ill carry whatever I have in my collection. Conversely if the policy regarding returning citizens' guns after an incident is "not a chance in he**" , ill be modifying my carry gun choices .

Thanks in advance for your responses.

My department tries to get guns back to their rightful owners every chance we get because if we don't we have to pay them for the replacement. It is not worth it to fight people getting their guns back. We have better things to spend our money on like training.

[yzErnie]

Basically as long as it takes........Besides criminal proceedings there is civil as well.

I don't know about your agency but mine does not hold "evidence" for civil court matters.

[Dutch3]

I know LEO's have often stated here that seized firearms are held in strict accordance with the laws related to evidence and are always returned when it is legal to do so. I can respect that.

I also know that it is not always the case. A longtime friend was presumed guilty by association (as near as I can figure) and was the subject of a warrant search. All of his firearms, ammo and reloading supplies were taken. He was never charged with any crime (as he had committed none), never tried, never convicted, yet none of his property was returned.

He has been told it has all been destroyed (yeah, right) and he will never see it again. Seems illegal to me.

I guess it is hard for an agency to say "Oops, we screwed up" after laying all that stuff out on a table for the press photos the morning after serving the warrants. Still, it seems like they should be bound by the law as the rest of us are.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2005/06/22/national/22raid_CA0.raid.html

[tyrist]

I know LEO's have often stated here that seized firearms are held in strict accordance with the laws related to evidence and are always returned when it is legal to do so. I can respect that.

I also know that it is not always the case. A longtime friend was presumed guilty by association (as near as I can figure) and was the subject of a warrant search. All of his firearms, ammo and reloading supplies were taken. He was never charged with any crime (as he had committed none), never tried, never convicted, yet none of his property was returned.

He has been told it has all been destroyed (yeah, right) and he will never see it again. Seems illegal to me.

I guess it is hard for an agency to say "Oops, we screwed up" after laying all that stuff out on a table for the press photos the morning after serving the warrants. Still, it seems like they should be bound by the law as the rest of us are.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20..._CA0.raid.html

You don't need a trial or conviction in order to hold evidence. The evidence is held while the matter is under investigation whether your friend had been arrested or not.

[Dutch3]

You don't need a trial or conviction in order to hold evidence. The evidence is held while the matter is under investigation whether your friend had been arrested or not.

It has been about 7 years, he has never been charged with any crime. He was told his firearms, ammo, reloading equipment and components, etc., were destroyed about a year after they were seized.

Or do you think they are still being held as "evidence"?

[tyrist]

It has been about 7 years, he has never been charged with any crime. He was told his firearms, ammo, reloading equipment and components, etc., were destroyed about a year after they were seized.

Or do you think they are still being held as "evidence"?

I have no idea since I know nothing of the specific case. I was merely stating how an agency can still hold items even if the owner has not been charged.

[mej16489]

It has been about 7 years, he has never been charged with any crime. He was told his firearms, ammo, reloading equipment and components, etc., were destroyed about a year after they were seized.

Or do you think they are still being held as "evidence"?

Of course I don't know the particulars of your friend's case - but its not uncommon for people to simply never even try to get their stuff back.

Laziness will definitely get them destroyed.

[Dutch3]

Definitely not lazy. He called 2-3 times per week and got bounced around through various agencies. They stonewalled him, hinting that he was going to be charged and prosecuted, but could not tell him what for.

They eventually returned his computer, which had also been seized, in pieces in a box, along with an "extra" hard drive that belonged to someone else. Eventually, he was told that he was not being charged with any crime but that he would never see his other property again, because it had "already been destroyed".

Upon contacting legal counsel, he was told he basically had no chance of prevailing, since there were Federal agencies involved. He was not lazy, but got screwed anyway.

[nick]

If you use a firearm for self defense it's going to be gone for a long time. Not really because of anything the police have any control over. It's just a symptom of our lagging court system which in some cases can take years to have the matter come to trial or have a disposition.

Look upon any carry gun as a tool, which can be easily replaced if needed.

That's one of the reasons why Glocks are so popular for self defense. Extremely reliable, relatively inexpensive and easily replaced.

And this is one of the reasons why one needs more than one gun - while your gun is in the evidence room, you gotta have a substitute. Especially if the "victim" has an equally nice family/gang/friends.