Feedback on this situation (from NH), but in CA...

[UP2MTNS]

please read (its short):

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/21/new-hampshire-man-faces-felony-charge-after-firing-gun-into-ground-near-burglar/

They actually confiscated ALL of his weapons/rifles, not just the handgun he used.

is this a state or a county thing? I'm in Saratoga, CA....kind of a nice/expensive neighborhood.....if I discharge my weapon like that, for the same scenario, is that illegal or considered 'reckless'?


Thanks for any feedback.....stories like this make me nervous to ever even consider using my HD handgun, unless the guy is yelling/screaming/breaking down doors with an uzi like a madman....I mean, how 'obvious' does the thief need to be before ANY kind of firearm force is OK?

[ir0nclash86]

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Link doesnt work

[A-J]

http://tinyurl.com/6s5nmrd

[Samuelx]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/21/new-hampshire-man-faces-felony-charge-after-firing-gun-into-ground-near-burglar/

New Hampshire man arrested for firing gun into ground while catching suspected burglar
By Joshua Rhett Miller

Published February 21, 2012


"I didn't think I could handle this guy physically, so I fired into the ground," Fleming told FoxNews.com.

A New Hampshire man who fired his handgun into the ground to scare an alleged burglar he caught crawling out of a neighbor's window is now facing a felony charge -- and the same potential prison sentence as the man he stopped.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/21...#ixzz1n3Q7coCk

Due to copyright laws, please do not quote whole articles. A snippet, a link and a comment from you if you desire will work. Thanks.

[Samuelx]

I hope they drop the charges...

[97F1504RAD]

He recklessly discharged a firearm what is so hard to understand. His life was not in danger and he put himself into a situation that he did not need to, especially in this state.

If he had been in Texas it probably would have been OK but my guess would be he could also face similar charges there as his life was not in imminent danger and he simply discharged the firearm to show he meant business. Big No No.

You cannot just go round discharging a firearm every time you need to make someone know your serious. He made a bad judgment and is now going to pay for it.

However I personally think the charges are BS, but it does not change the fact that he did in fact discharge a firearm recklessly.

[UP2MTNS]

He recklessly discharged a firearm what is so hard to understand. His life was not in danger and he put himself into a situation that he did not need to, especially in this state.

If he had been in Texas it probably would have been OK but my guess would be he could also face similar charges there as his life was not in imminent danger and he simply discharged the firearm to show he meant business. Big No No.

You cannot just go round discharging a firearm every time you need to make someone know your serious. He made a bad judgment and is now going to pay for it.

However I personally think the charges are BS, but it does not change the fact that he did in fact discharge a firearm recklessly.

well, 'big no no' still doesn't tell me if this is 'legal' or not?


He didn't put him self in that situation, the criminal did. He caught him in the act, so he armed himself for self protection, and essentially made a citizens arrest....how is that the 'wrong thing to do?'

(I called 911 once in San Jose when I saw some guys robbing my apt building - TV grab and dash - I was in my car and pulled up as they dumped it in the truck and took off....the 911 operator actually asked me why I didn't do something to stop them....)


And not sure how a warning shot is a no-no in that situation? Would it be better if he just shot the guy in the leg and then told the cops that he came at him when he confronted him? Its not like they were in a populated mall.



either way, question is still out there.....you catch a guy robbing your house, you arm yourself for protection, confront him, he basically looks at you like 'Honeybadger don't care', so you put one into the ground. Legal or no?

does it make a difference if he's IN your house? (and you put one into your nice wood floors?) because you'd rather scare him than kill him?

[UP2MTNS]

Link doesnt work

thx, I think I fixed it. And thx to Samuelx.

[9mmepiphany]

Firing warning shots is generally a bad idea.

What you are saying is that you might have been afraid, but you weren't in such fear that you could justify using deadly force.

You have to remember that discharging a firearm is by definition using deadly force

[yzErnie]

To bad this didn't happen in the community I work!!

[Lives_In_Fresno]

either way, question is still out there.....you catch a guy robbing your house, you arm yourself for protection, confront him, he basically looks at you like 'Honeybadger don't care', so you put one into the ground. Legal or no?

does it make a difference if he's IN your house? (and you put one into your nice wood floors?) because you'd rather scare him than kill him?

so, as I understand you, you come home and see that someone is in your house, you go in, arm yourself (from inside?) and confront him?

Aren't you possibly creating the situation at that point? It starts as a burg, and you escalate it? you put one in the ground? Before or after he sees you and runs like hell to get out of there? what lethal threat has he made to you? If you are home, and he breaks in, threat may be presumed...It might not be presumed the same way, when you come home while a burg is in progress, especially if you notice it from outside and enter the home anyway. In that instance, why wouldn't you call the police and let the police check the house?

did you call the police? when?

I don't think your scenario is fleshed out enough, frankly...

[yzErnie]

The law provides you the right to protect your property. In the OPs original post scenario blasting one into the ground is, IMO, not that big of a deal. I guess the department I work for is more pro good citizen than the one where this incident happened.

[Samuelx]

IMinitialignorantkneejerkO - If Mr Fleming is a shady character, slam him. If he's the decent productive member of society that he seems to be, I say give him a break for doing in good faith what he thought was reasonable and right (and making that decision and acting during Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly Evolving conditions). He could have just as easily shot the dirtbag...

ETA: BTW, in NO way am I suggesting or encouraging people do go out and do this! I DO encourage people to know and understand when it is and when it isn't reasonable to do certain things when protecting themselves or their property...

[UP2MTNS]

I don't think your scenario is fleshed out enough, frankly...

?? I'm not making this stuff up....the situation from the article is pretty clear and the scenario happened....real life, and now the guy is potentially in a lot of trouble for it, so I'm just trying to figure out what's right/wrong.


To answer your other questions....no, I don't believe you're 'creating the situation' at that point....the situation was already created the the perpetrator, you just happen to be walking into it.


what lethal threat? Well, IMO its a criminal activity and you have no idea what state of mind or intentions this guy has, so its not exactly off-base to assume some level of danger and react accordingly. Its also not off-base to want to stop him, no? Another legal question, I guess....what exactly is the legal definition of 'lethal threat', and how much of a threat is needed before you can take action? Does the guy have to start shooting first? what if he's 275lbs and just comes at you with watermelon sized fists and tries to beat the crap out of you?


When do you call the cops? Looks like the guy in the article called them after, but would it have mattered?

In your scenario (notice from the outside the break-in is in progress)....you assume no one is home....what if you're wife/kids are home when you come in and notice someone else is in the house? You gonna wait outside and do nothing?

My point isn't to debate the millions of ways this scenario could play itself out, its to understand the 'gray' area of what you can/can't do in CA in this type of situation where its not 100% obvious that if you don't kill this guy fist, he'll kill you (like in the Antioch shooting).


Personally, I don't ever want to have to kill someone, and I don't honestly know if I could. But if i catch someone in the act, and they don't react to me pointing a gun at them, and my wife/kids are in the next room, and I NEED this person to cease and desist, I'd much rather put one round in the floor or ceiling before making that 'point of no return' decision.

But I don't want to get arrested for it either if it turns out the guy was just trying to steal my stereo.

I DO encourage people to know and understand when it is and when it isn't reasonable to do certain things when protecting themselves or their property...

exactly, just trying to educate myself. Having a HD weapon (whether its a baseball bat or a firearm) is pretty useless if you're just worried about getting arrested for using it when you really need it. I was hoping some of the LEO's on here would chime in with some real life situations, how people reacted, and what the consequences were.

[adrenalinejunkie]

This makes me sick at some of the horrendous, arbitrary laws that our government chooses to create and uphold....