Car emergency pack... are knives okay?

[shortround1]

Hello, I imagine this has been covered before, but I'm wondering about legalities of tossing camping/survival type knives into an emergency backpack. I believe strapping a sheathed fixed blade knife onto the outside of a pack, where it is visible, is probably legal. But is it okay to put such knives inside the pack for those times when you don't want everybody in the world looking at your knife? Does it become a concealed weapon by doing this? Does this vary from city to city or county to county? Also what about smaller tool-type blades like Leatherman tools and Swiss army knives? Can those be placed inside a pack without worrying?

I ask because I'm a civilian hoping to put together a car emergency/get home pack with jumper cables, road flares, tarp, minor 1st aid kit etc. I would like to have at least one strong fixed blade knife with my pack. Thanks for your time with my run-on questions.

[TheExpertish]

You're fine. If it's in your pack in your car, or you're wearing it in public, you're fine. The law IIRC only pertains to hiding weapons on your person.

[223556]

Good information here Thanks gadsdenarmory!

[Cokebottle]

Local municipal codes vary, specifically LA/LA County, some bay area counties...
You'll need to check the individual codes that might apply to your area, but AFAIK, those laws only apply to direct carry on your person, definition of concealed/open, and blade length allowed. Example, LA County, you can't openly carry a fixed blade longer than 3"... and state law precludes concealed carry of a fixed blade.
There are exceptions to the above for legitimate recreational, employment, or religious purposes.


State law has no prohibition or length limitation on open carry. State law does prohibit the concealed carry "on or about the person" of any "dirk or dagger"
"Dirk or dagger" would be defined as a fixed blade, or a folder with the blade locked open.

The touchy issue comes under "on or about the person".
In a pack in your car or in your trunk? No problem.
Carrying that pack? Officer discretion.
A few of months ago, one of the LEOs on the forum indicated that if he had to "dig" that he would not arrest for it, but if it is in a position to readily draw, he might.

[shortround1]

Thanks for all that info. It sounds like I'm gtg with putting my pack together. I wonder if I still have to worry about driving in or through L.A. county. I imagine it's ok as long as any knife stays in or stapped onto my emergency pack in the car.

Local municipal codes vary, specifically LA/LA County, some bay area counties...
You'll need to check the individual codes that might apply to your area, but AFAIK, those laws only apply to direct carry on your person, definition of concealed/open, and blade length allowed. Example, LA County, you can't openly carry a fixed blade longer than 3"... and state law precludes concealed carry of a fixed blade.
There are exceptions to the above for legitimate recreational, employment, or religious purposes.


State law has no prohibition or length limitation on open carry. State law does prohibit the concealed carry "on or about the person" of any "dirk or dagger"
"Dirk or dagger" would be defined as a fixed blade, or a folder with the blade locked open.

The touchy issue comes under "on or about the person".
In a pack in your car or in your trunk? No problem.
Carrying that pack? Officer discretion.
A few of months ago, one of the LEOs on the forum indicated that if he had to "dig" that he would not arrest for it, but if it is in a position to readily draw, he might.

^ I find that officer's way of thinking odd. Since in most places you can have your knife strapped onto the outside of your pack right? Which is much faster access than inside the pack. I wonder if he meant something like, in arms length of your driver's seat, or something to that effect.

[Cokebottle]

^ I find that officer's way of thinking odd. Since in most places you can have your knife strapped onto the outside of your pack right? Which is much faster access than inside the pack.

Outside the pack is not concealed.
State law prohibits a concealed fixed blade knife "on or about the person"

In the pack, in the trunk or back of an SUV, you're going to be fine in LA.
LA city and county.
Carrying the pack, it would be best to have it mounted to the outside. You would be clear of state law that way. Local ordinances? Tough call. I've never had a problem riding with my club carrying an 8" sheath knife on my belt... but it would be best to remain inconspicuous.


Important to note that incorporated cities within LACO do NOT fall under the LA County prohibitions. It is legal to openly carry a 4" fixed blade in Burbank, but to cross Clybourn into North Hollywood and you would be in violation, since that is actually LA City. Likewise, you would be legal in Diamond Bar, but not Industry.
Sometimes I'm not even clear on what cities are actually county and which are "cities"... and the presence of a city government doesn't mean that they are incorporated.... and some parts of some cities are actually county. I grew up in South Whittier.
Whittier was incorporated and had their own PD.... but of the six zip codes that comprise Whittier, 100% of mine was county, and about half of two others were either county or serviced by LASD and not WPD.

[shortround1]

Outside the pack is not concealed.
State law prohibits a concealed fixed blade knife "on or about the person."

Understood, thanks again Cokebottle. It's a shame that the laws can change so quickly when you cross invisible city/county lines. It makes it hard to keep up on these things. And there seems to be a fine line between whether you strap it to the outside for legal purposes (in most counties I guess) or toss it into the pack so that you don't disturb the peace with a visible knife. For camping situations I wouldn't be to worried to carry it... but parked in L.A...

A likely scenario for me is: I go to visit my buddy, he lives in downtown L.A., or I drive out to the Angeles range. I'd like to keep a medium 4-6.5" fixed blade in my emergency pack at all times. The pack stays in the car, the pack and the knife are not on me at any time unless I have need to grab emergency supplies.

Are there any lapd lasd that can chime in to say this scenario is ok?

[Cokebottle]

Pack stays in the car should be GTG, but I would like to hear a confirmation from an LA LEO.

[Ron-Solo]

Important to note that incorporated cities within LACO do NOT fall under the LA County prohibitions. It is legal to openly carry a 4" fixed blade in Burbank, but to cross Clybourn into North Hollywood and you would be in violation, since that is actually LA City. Likewise, you would be legal in Diamond Bar, but not Industry.

Sometimes I'm not even clear on what cities are actually county and which are "cities"... and the presence of a city government doesn't mean that they are incorporated.... and some parts of some cities are actually county. I grew up in South Whittier.
Whittier was incorporated and had their own PD.... but of the six zip codes that comprise Whittier, 100% of mine was county, and about half of two others were either county or serviced by LASD and not WPD.

Cokebottle, I get what you are trying to say, but not exactly correct. Both Diamond Bar and City of Industry are incorporated cities that contract with LASD for police services. I worked both of those areas at Industry and then Walnut Stations. Most of the cities served by LASD under contract adopt the LA County Codes for enforcement purposes. These two did.

LA County Code prohibits carrying an exposed knife with a blade longer that 5". In reality, the only arrests I ever saw, or made myself, were to solve a "problem" where there was no other means to handle the problem. The suspect talked his way into jail.

LASD provides law enforcement for unincorporated areas of Los Angeles County and the following cities under contract:

City of Agoura Hills

City of Artesia

City of Avalon

City of Bellflower

City of Bradbury

City of Calabasas

City of Carson

City of Cerritos

City of Commerce

City of Compton

City of Diamond Bar

City of Duarte

City of Hawaiian Gardens

City of Hidden Hills

City of Industry

City of La Canada Flintridge

City of La Habra Heights

City of Lakewood

City of La Mirada

City of Lancaster

City of La Puente

City of Lawndale

City of Lomita

City of Lynwood

City of Malibu

City of Norwalk

City of Palmdale

City of Paramount

City of Pico Rivera

City of Rancho Palos Verdes

City of Rolling Hills

City of Rolling Hills Estates

City of Rosemead

City of San Dimas

City of Santa Clarita

City of South El Monte

City of Temple City

City of Walnut

City of West Hollywood

City of Westlake Village

Metrolink Trains (into San Bernardino, Riverside, Orange, Ventura Counties)

MetroRail trains

MTA Busses


It can be confusing sometimes, especially when you are working a station that covers 6 contract cities and unincorporated area.

Regards,

Ron

[Ron-Solo]

Pack stays in the car should be GTG, but I would like to hear a confirmation from an LA LEO.

Good to go. Not concealed on your person, nor wearing exposed. No violation. I carry a KBar in my emergency pack, and recommend them to all my non LE friends.

But, I'm not allowed to play with sharp objects.

[G-forceJunkie]

ron-solo: Thanks for the post. Can you tell us how the LASD measures a fixed blade knife? Is it the length of the cutting surface? Tip to hilt?

[Cokebottle]

Didn't realize that Industry was incorporated. Okay... Rowland Heights

But either way, it looks like the LACO open-carry length limit is not as restrictive as LA City, which leaves the problem determining what "cities" are actually City of LA like Reseda, North Ho, etc... and which are incorporated or county.
Easy enough if you see LAPD patrolling, not so easy for someone planning a safe path.

5" for County? Not unreasonable. I can see carrying something larger in a "cheapie"... but my ESEE-5 is a heavy beast and I can't imagine carrying a true quality knife larger than that.

[Ron-Solo]

ron-solo: Thanks for the post. Can you tell us how the LASD measures a fixed blade knife? Is it the length of the cutting surface? Tip to hilt?

I've always done and seen it measured tip to hilt for total blade length.

[Cokebottle]

Good to go. Not concealed on your person, nor wearing exposed. No violation. I carry a KBar in my emergency pack, and recommend them to all my non LE friends.

But, I'm not allowed to play with sharp objects.

Got a K-Bar, but I really like my ESEE-5.
Glass breaker pommel, and the oh-so tacticool divot in the scales to act as an upper bearing surface for a bow-drill.

I bought the pocket for the sheath... fits an Altoids tin, and the tin is (barely) large enough to hold my firesteel, magnesium block, and a basic compass.

[Ron-Solo]

Nice knife