Hi-Cap Mags / Retired LEO

[eltee]

While on active duty and assigned to a tactical unit, an LEO orders two Beta-C 100 rd. mags for AR's THROUGH THE DEPT. He paid, but the paperwork went through the agency. The agency considered them as HIS mags.

LEO retires honorably, HR218 / LEOSA eligible, etc. I know he can keep high caps he purchased while still an active LEO and use them even though he is now retired, but what about mags bought through the department? They are stamped LE Only, etc. The agency does not want them back since he paid for them.

He is concerned some Dudley Do-Right will see them at the range and go berserk.

He's never had trouble with 20/30 round mags in his registered AW's at the ranges, but the double drums attract attention and he wants to be sure he is on solid legal ground. My initial thoughts are the drums are no different than any other hi-cap mags bought while still active, but I thought I'd ask the CGN folks for opinions in case I am missing something.

Please, no cop bashing. My intent is not to have this descend into a cops can, non-cops can't issue. Just seeking educated opinions on existing laws.

[Gio]

He is GTG as long as the mags are used in a legal configuration. Mag possession is Legal period. No receipt of proof is needed.

[BigDogatPlay]

He is GTG as long as the mags are used in a legal configuration. Mag possession is Legal period. No receipt of proof is needed.

This, pretty much. We could quibble over the semantics in some of the above but that's a wholly different thread.

If he paid for them, they are his property, without question. Bear in mind that, for a while, we had to have a department letter to take delivery > 10 capacity mags, and perhaps that's the reference of "paperwork through the department" in the OP. I know I had to have a letter when I bought my P226 in 2001 before the FFL would hand me the 12 round OEM mags. That letter requirement was later dropped (it was flipping stoopid anyway) and now active peace officers can buy all the > 10 capacity mags they want.

OTOH... if those mags were purchased with taxpayer dollars the department would / should ask for them back when the LEO retires, otherwise there could be ramifications for illegally converting department property to personal use. Not saying that is what happened, but that is what could happen in a slightly different set of circumstances.

[cacop]

You should be good to go if you have any +10 round mags in retirement. I think Brown's opinion on RAWs threw everyone off due to the whole letterhead required=turn it in when retired.

[code33]

Don't see why he wouldn't be covered under the 12020(b)(20) PC exemption if the transaction of done prior to separation:

The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

[blakdawg]

Legally? No problem.

Practically? I think it's entirely possible he'll run into some idiot who wants to make a big fuss, and if he's unlucky he'll run into LEO's who don't know the law and want to make a big deal about it.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Legally? No problem.

Practically? I think it's entirely possible he'll run into some idiot who wants to make a big fuss, and if he's unlucky he'll run into LEO's who don't know the law and want to make a big deal about it.

+1.

They are his mags. Yeah, he'll get stuck with a range nazi, but the nazi can't take enforcement on him, other than kicking him out of the range. I suggest that he goes out in the desert with his Beta-C mags to prevent idiots from crying about them.

[CSACANNONEER]

He's 100% legal as long as he does not use them on a fixed magazine - non-RAW rifle. The fact that they are marked "LE ONLY" has about as much legal bearing as if they were stamped "For use with Howdy Duddy's left nut ONLY". The ONLY thing those markings were for was to allow them to be manufactured and sold to LEOs and LEAs during the Clinton Federal AW ban.

[SVT-40]

Perfectly legal for him to keep and use in California any all mags he bought or was given by his agency before his retirement.

The only sticky point could be if he was to leave California with them and then "import" them back into California IF he did not acquire them before Jan 1, 2000.

The High cap law allows re-importation of mags legally obtained before the ban, and allows active LEO's to do the same.

The rub is there is no allowance in the law for LEO's who obtained high cap mags after 2000 and then retired, to "import" them back into California if they leave the state with them.

The devil is in the details......


12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

The exceptions relevant to this discussion:
(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this
state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any
federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is
charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees
in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and
where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course
and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a
sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with
Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a
firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
possessed in the state.

(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a
sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with
Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a
firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

[cacop]

What is their defintion of "import." Does it mean the first time it is imported or subsequent importations?

Let's say I buy a 15 round mag in 1999. I go on vacation in 2005 out of state and bring along said mag. I return from vacation with the mag. Did I import it and now is it no longer covered if I retire in 2011?

[rromeo]

If you bought the magazine prior to the ban (CA, not federal), you're allowed to take it out of state and bring it back. Any magazines purchased after the cutoff are not afforded the same rights, even though they were legally purchased. This is assuming you are not associated with a law enforcement agency.

[ap3572001]

I wrote before regarding the whole magazine thing....

The way I understand the law is that ANYONE CAN HAVE AND USE ANY MAGAZINES.

To have them and use them is legal . LEO OR NOT.

This law is not written well and not understood by A LOT of people.

[SVT-40]

I wrote before regarding the whole magazine thing....

The way I understand the law is that ANYONE CAN HAVE AND USE ANY MAGAZINES.

To have them and use them is legal . LEO OR NOT.

This law is not written well and not understood by A LOT of people.

If the mags were imported into California after the ban or manufactured after the ban they would be illegal unless they met one of the exceptions in 12020 PC.

If you import a magazine into California illegally or illegally manufacture one you could be in violation of 12020PC. So no, anyone cannot have and use any magazine.

Being a active duty LEO is one of the exceptions. Once you retire you loose the exception in the law to import into California , purchase or manufacture high cap magazines.

[ap3572001]

Being a active duty LEO is one of the exceptions. Once you retire you loose the exception in the law to import into California , purchase or manufacture high cap magazines.[/QUOTE]


This is what I mean.....

I said HAVE and USE. Not purchase, manufacture or import.

To have and use something is different than manufacturing or importing.

Do You see waht I mean? I am an LEO, and I cant come up to someone and say , : "Hey You , how come You got those magazines with Your Glock?" There is nothing on the books about having them and using them .

[Cokebottle]

You should be good to go if you have any +10 round mags in retirement. I think Brown's opinion on RAWs threw everyone off due to the whole letterhead required=turn it in when retired.

ANYONE is GTG with 10+ mags.

You simply can't assemble or import them.
The LEO bought them legally under his dealer's exemption allowing legal sales to LEO (and department letterhead is not needed).

LEO retires, the mags are not transferred... they were and remain to be his.

There is ONE issue.
He can't legally take the magazine outside of California and bring it back.

No longer being an active LEO, he is subject to the same laws and restrictions as the rest of us.
Even though he legally obtained the magazine after the ban, the importation exemption only applies to magazines that were legally possessed prior to the ban... If they leave the state, they can not be brought back in. Even disassembled, they can't be reassembled in California without violating "manufacturing".