Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Going to be a crummy year in 2012...

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • 43Duc
    Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 137

    Going to be a crummy year in 2012...

    Just venting, but my agency is just about to get started w/ contract negotiations. Our City Manager has already come out and said he thinks we need to pay our entire contribution to pers (currently we pay about 3.5). We're also pretty certain to get a second tier which will kill off any quality lateral officers coming over. To top it off, our Chief has said to some that we should be paying the full 9 as well. Talk about NOT having our backs!

    Oh, and to top it off, the Chief has decided to change the way our entire patrol schedule is done. Our current schedule is the envy of most other agency members I've talked to, but now all flexibility is being removed and we're going from a flexible twelve hour shift to a fixed 10 hour shift. All this to the "benefit of the organization" regardless of the detriment to the officers. A poll showed 78% of the officers wanted to keep our current schedule, so as you can imagine there's been quite an uproar about it.

    To make matters worse, to meet the staff numbers required to make their proposed schedule work, they've eliminated about 20 specialty assignments w/ the complete elimination of some departments. Those bodies have been put back in patrol to bolster numbers. I know that there are cutbacks nation-wide, but they are not eliminating positions to eliminate people; they're just re-slicing the pie. The downside to those eliminations is that our recruiting poster really should only show a patrol cop. Hard to attract candidates when there's not much career development to be had.

    I know there are a lot of guys out there w/ more serious problems at their departments, but ours has long been a desirable place to work due to the strong local economy and support from our citizens. Our city council now finds it "philosophically" difficult to pay us more than other agencies or increase our benefits because those cities are struggling.

    Anyway, I'm just venting. I'm sure I'll get flamed but just wanted to share what one agency is going through. Honestly if someone was looking to lateral to my agency I'd tell them to think long and hard before coming over. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
  • #2
    Cokebottle
    Seņor Member
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Oct 2009
    • 32373

    Ours (non LEO) just approved a modification... compromise that got us a 3 year extension.
    The tradeoff? Increase in PERs contribution, total 4% increase in our share by 2014, no merit pay (thus, zero incentive for someone at top scale to give more than minimal effort required to avoid being written up), new hires drop to 2%@55 instead of the 2.5%@55 we have now, and 4 more steps are being added to the bottom of the pay scale, so new hires will be coming in at 8% less than they were "yesterday" and it will now take 7 years minimum to make top scale. It was a 5 year minimum with 10 steps... 2 steps (4%) allowed per year for top-level reviews, 1 step (2%) for "average" performance, and no raise for "needs improvement"
    - Rich

    Originally posted by dantodd
    A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

    Comment

    • #3
      anthonyca
      Calguns Addict
      • May 2008
      • 6316

      I am non LEO. What are the chief, city manager, and city counsel taking for cuts?
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union...70812799700206

      Originally posted by Wherryj
      I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

      Comment

      • #4
        Cokebottle
        Seņor Member
        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
        • Oct 2009
        • 32373

        Originally posted by anthonyca
        I am non LEO. What are the chief, city manager, and city counsel taking for cuts?
        In our case, I don't know about chief (as I said, not an LEA, I'm a Traffic Signal Tech), our city manager took a 10% cut, and ALL non-represented management (top-level admin) took everything that we just "got"... except they took the entire 4% PERs contribution increase in one shot instead of staging it over 3 years.
        They did this 6 months ago.

        Made it hard for us to say "what are you giving up?"
        - Rich

        Originally posted by dantodd
        A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

        Comment

        • #5
          Watchur6
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2011
          • 714

          Our county board members have given up nothing. Now they are saying there will be more cuts due to their unforeseen costs. Which were accumulated by an over zealous board member who over stepped his role and now owes legal fees for a failed case. It seems very top heavy everywhere and all I keep seeing is front line officers getting the shaft while no upper management takes any hits (based on what I've seen).
          43Duc im sorry to hear of your current situation, I hope the negotiations turn out better than it sounds. Good luck to all. Sorry for the rant.

          Comment

          • #6
            cacop
            Member
            • Jan 2006
            • 310

            We have always paid 9% into our pension even though most of the 90s and 2000s the city paid far less than that. Not we are picking up 11.5% of the city's part. We are also paying a little more for health insurance (I think $30 per check). We are doing a 3% furlough. And to top it off 3%@55 for new hires. Even before this change we have been understaffed. They essentially save 5% off their budget by running us short. I don't think we will ever get up to authorized staffing until the economy improves and then the tax base goes up. My bet is that we won't get much improvement until 2020. I retire in 2022.

            Ask me how little I care about the city. All I want to do is show up, do the best job I can without going crazy, and go home. After 4 days they let me go home for a few days off and I start all over again.

            As of right now my goal is to take all OT as comp time. My goal is to have $0 in OT the next time they print our pay in the paper. I also encourage others to do so because it actually hurts the city when we take time off over cash.

            Comment

            • #7
              fullrearview
              Calguns Addict
              • Jan 2008
              • 9371

              Paying THE FULL 9% IS NOT BAD as long as you get an equal raise... In fact, you would really be paying about 6-7% and it's tax free, so you would net a small raise. They are trying to do the same with us. We will do it with the raise.
              "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~

              Comment

              • #8
                43Duc
                Member
                • Mar 2010
                • 137

                Originally posted by fullrearview
                Paying THE FULL 9% IS NOT BAD as long as you get an equal raise... In fact, you would really be paying about 6-7% and it's tax free, so you would net a small raise. They are trying to do the same with us. We will do it with the raise.
                You're right; it's not a bad deal if they give us a raise to offset the cost. They would win in the papers and we would go away for a while without raising a stink. The drawback for us is that right now, they pay us the 6% as part of our base salary and then take the contribution out of our pay. So the 6% counts towards our total compensation at retirement. That's something was was negotiated years ago and now they want it back. So some guys that are at retirement age but continue to work because they love it will retire immediately.

                For me, it's just a double wammy of the contract and schedule change that's killing us. Our schedule is flexible to the point that if I want a 5 day weekend I can move my days around to make it happen just about any time I want as long as minimums are met. You all know that's a great perk. Now it will be gone. The old guys are pissed because they lose the flexibility and the new guys are pissed because they will lose any chance of getting a weekend off for several years. (the new schedule only allows for half the force to get a weekend off; so the junior half gets the shaft (we are a seniority based system - as it should be)).

                I guess we all should be up in arms over the new contract, but we're having to spread our disgruntledness over the contract, schedule and lack of specialties. It's unfortunate in that, as you all know, when troops are unhappy they become a reactionary force vs. proactive. Like someone said above - do the minimum to meet requirements. It's sad because I don't think any of us do this job to "just get by".

                I'm sure you all who are in contract situations hear the same things, "general services took a cut", "librarians took a cut", "lifeguards took a cut", etc. etc. Because other city services took cuts or got screwed they feel like we should bend over as well. They don't seem to understand that barring some freak accident, the guy that picks up the trash will be home to see his wife and kids at night. We, on the other hand, voluntarily put ourselves into situations that could leave widows and orphans. I know I volunteered for that, but it doesn't mean I should be treated the same.

                Comment

                • #9
                  415dog!
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 569

                  You guys have a strong poa?
                  ten-8

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    43Duc
                    Member
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 137

                    Originally posted by 415dog!
                    You guys have a strong poa?
                    Nope. We've got a crappy POA that also includes non-sworn CSOs, PCOs, and ACOs. Two of our POA members are married to non-sworn employees, so you can see how that sucks. We've got a couple of good, strong personalities up there but the POA president doesn't like to "make waves". I know, I know... we elected 'em...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      ironcross
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 726

                      The big question is...

                      When will it get better?

                      As a person who wants the job, it's hard as hell to get in...
                      I'm not a LEO nor Lawyer, none of what I say can nor should be used as legal advice.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        cacop
                        Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 310

                        Originally posted by tyrist
                        Things are tough right now but when things turn around cities will be competing against each other again for top recruits/laterals and the pay and benefits will change yet again.
                        Remember this. My city is thinking they can get cops for cheap. Right now we are just not filling positions because we don't have enough good candidates coming in the front door.

                        When the economy turns around or enough people retire/leave they will have two choices:

                        1. Work fewer people hard which just drives away even more people.

                        2. Step up and pay more.

                        I know they would like #1 but they can't function like that forever.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          yzErnie
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 6309

                          Originally posted by 43Duc
                          Just venting, but my agency is just about to get started w/ contract negotiations. Our City Manager has already come out and said he thinks we need to pay our entire contribution to pers (currently we pay about 3.5). We're also pretty certain to get a second tier which will kill off any quality lateral officers coming over. To top it off, our Chief has said to some that we should be paying the full 9 as well. Talk about NOT having our backs!

                          Oh, and to top it off, the Chief has decided to change the way our entire patrol schedule is done. Our current schedule is the envy of most other agency members I've talked to, but now all flexibility is being removed and we're going from a flexible twelve hour shift to a fixed 10 hour shift. All this to the "benefit of the organization" regardless of the detriment to the officers. A poll showed 78% of the officers wanted to keep our current schedule, so as you can imagine there's been quite an uproar about it.

                          To make matters worse, to meet the staff numbers required to make their proposed schedule work, they've eliminated about 20 specialty assignments w/ the complete elimination of some departments. Those bodies have been put back in patrol to bolster numbers. I know that there are cutbacks nation-wide, but they are not eliminating positions to eliminate people; they're just re-slicing the pie. The downside to those eliminations is that our recruiting poster really should only show a patrol cop. Hard to attract candidates when there's not much career development to be had.

                          I know there are a lot of guys out there w/ more serious problems at their departments, but ours has long been a desirable place to work due to the strong local economy and support from our citizens. Our city council now finds it "philosophically" difficult to pay us more than other agencies or increase our benefits because those cities are struggling.

                          Anyway, I'm just venting. I'm sure I'll get flamed but just wanted to share what one agency is going through. Honestly if someone was looking to lateral to my agency I'd tell them to think long and hard before coming over. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
                          Welcome to the world of reality. Every department I know of has taken substantial hits. These hits come in the way of salary and benefit cuts and by not filling positions as they become vacant. Just about every department is feeling the same pains you are.

                          We just took a major hit on our contract and it couldn't come at a worse time for the wife and I. I'll be retiring in 5 1/2 months and the wife in 2 1/2 years. The bottom line is we have jobs and have never been the highest paid department but we make ok money/benefits. Having been around a day or two, I can tell you with 100% confidence that in todays economy and 11% unemployement rate, we are still better off than many people.

                          One thing about your 10 hour schedule, it has been proven time after time that the 10 schedules for patrol are not the most efficient use of resources. The two most efficient shifts are the 5-8s or the 12s. Perhaps your association could bring that to light to try and help you keep your shifts.
                          Last edited by yzErnie; 10-01-2011, 9:09 AM.
                          The satisfaction of a job well done is to be the one who has done it

                          Originally posted by RazoE
                          I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Ron-Solo
                            In Memoriam
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 8581

                            I paid 11% thru the first 30 years of my career. After 30 years I stopped paying into the retirement, and we never got 3% at 50.
                            LASD Retired
                            1978-2011

                            NRA Life Member
                            CRPA Life Member
                            NRA Rifle Instructor
                            NRA Shotgun Instructor
                            NRA Range Safety Officer
                            DOJ Certified Instructor

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              oddjob
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 2397

                              I'm glad I retired..........

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              UA-8071174-1