Riverside Sheriff Layoff's

[cindynles]

When you submitted that sentence did you articulate a justification?

Yes, and I ran it by some of the "right people" who frequent this site before I submitted it.

Details are in this thread starting a post 30: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352777

[yzErnie]

Yes, and I ran it by some of the "right people" who frequent this site before I submitted it.

Your quote from 11-04-10

I'm not turning in the "Additional Background Questions" though since it says "I fully understand that this information will be treated as confidential and, though not required, providing accurate information will assist in a timely completion of the CCW application process."

Your quote from 11-28-10

When I submitted my application recently, I was asked if I completed the supplemental questionnaire but I was not required to turn it in.

Your quote from 02-17-11

Good cause was "I wish to carry a handgun for the purpose of self defense, specifically from animal predators such as coyotes and mountain lions"

I knew it was a gamble going into it........

It looks to me you answered your own question in your final sentence of your last quote above. Without seeing your submitted documents it would be hard to make a judgement as to why they did not issue to you. However, it would seem to me the "right people" would have had you further articulate your reasoning in your Good Cause statement to something more than protection from predatory animals.

One of the other posters in your previous thread said he got his Riverside County CCW pretty easily. Without making any judgement, did you contact them and ask specifically why they declined?

[cindynles]

One of the other posters in your previous thread said he got his Riverside County CCW pretty easily. Without making any judgement, did you contact them and ask specifically why they declined?

They will not put it in writing, but its because I do not meet the good cause of:

VALID DEATH THREATS OR HARRASSMENT ARE THE CRITERIA WHERE
ISSUANCE OF A CCW PERMIT WILL BE CONSIDERED FOR PERSONAL
PROTECTION. THE RIVERSIDE COUNTY SHERIFF DOES NOT ISSUE PERMITS
TO “PROVIDE A FEELING OF SAFETY” OR TO ALLEVIATE A “FEAR OF
VICTIMIZATION”.

As defined here on page 5: http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf

I completed and passed the LiveScan, meet the moral charcter requirement, qualified with 3 handguns, and completed the required training. But since I don't own a business or have an active stalker, Sheriff Sniff will not "allow" me the "privilege" of a CCW.

I understand that this is the way things are right now, but it is an undisputed fact that the Riverside County Sheriff's CCW unit will not issue to a "regular" citizen like me.

[AR15Kimo]

One of my buddies just graduated from the RSO academy like 1-2 weeks ago o.O

[yzErnie]

it is an undisputed fact that the Riverside County Sheriff's CCW unit will not issue to a "regular" citizen like me.

The below is a quote from another CGN'er who applied at Riverside county for CCW:

I just made sure that EVERYTHING was done ahead of time. Everything was typed up and legible. My good cause we well written, like you would a college paper. (Thank goodness for spell check.) I dressed nice for the interview and gave them no other cause to turn me down. All the "t's" were crossed and the "i's" dotted. Got my class taken care of in a timely manner. Made followup calls but didn't bug them. All in all it was pretty easy!

Again, without seeing your submitted paperwork or knowing anything about you it would be difficult to make a judgement on why they did not issue. Obviously and for some reason, they declinded to issue to you. I would again encourage you to contact them and see if they will enlighten you as to why they declined to issue.

[cindynles]

Again, without seeing your submitted paperwork or knowing anything about you it would be difficult to make a judgement on why they did not issue. Obviously and for some reason, they declinded to issue to you. I would again encourage you to contact them and see if they will enlighten you as to why they declined to issue.

I don't want to de-rail this thread anymore than I already have. I attended the training class with that Calguner and his good cause was much more closely aligned with the policy stated by Sheriff Sniff. The point I am trying to make is that Riverside county will NOT issue to a regular citizen unless they have an active threat (with police reports) or a business (lots of cash) related good cause.

I am proof of that. I posted my good cause and the denial letter I received. I am as normal as it gets, but I don't own a business and no one is actively threating me. I can tell you that I was activetly discouraged from applying by the CCW unit at my interview when they read my good cause. I insisted on applying anyway, so now there is documented proof that Sheriff Sniff is not a CCW supporter. I am not trying to discourage anyone from applying, but I am bring facts to the table.

The FACT is that the RSO CCW unit will NOT issue to a regular citizen. I am a regular citizen, honorably discharged veteran, of good moral character, not a prohibited person, who passed the LiveScan process, and Sheriff Sniff will NOT issue a CCW to me.

[Noah3683]

Not to butt in here, but as I'm in the process now in San Bernardino County.... I will go out of my way to elaborate anything extra in full detail that I believe will help my cause. I understand San Bernardino County is quite a bit more relaxed on the issue, but still. I think answering the additional "optional" questionaire and giving a little more detail on your cause IE: "I'm an avid hiker and have encountered dangerous animals in which I felt fear for my life on previous occasions before" I'm not sure it would've worked, but I bet it would've increased your odds substantially.

[yzErnie]

I don't want to de-rail this thread anymore than I already have. I attended the training class with that Calguner and his good cause was much more closely aligned with the policy stated by Sheriff Sniff. The point I am trying to make is that Riverside county will NOT issue to a regular citizen unless they have an active threat (with police reports) or a business (lots of cash) related good cause.

I am proof of that. I posted my good cause and the denial letter I received. I am as normal as it gets, but I don't own a business and no one is actively threating me. I can tell you that I was activetly discouraged from applying by the CCW unit at my interview when they read my good cause. I insisted on applying anyway, so now there is documented proof that Sheriff Sniff is not a CCW supporter. I am not trying to discourage anyone from applying, but I am bring facts to the table.

The FACT is that the RSO CCW unit will NOT issue to a regular citizen. I am a regular citizen, honorably discharged veteran, of good moral character, not a prohibited person, who passed the LiveScan process, and Sheriff Sniff will NOT issue a CCW to me.

I can tell you from personal experience (my wife used to work in the unit that does this for our dept) if you don't articulate your request well enough or if you don't turn in all of the paperwork given to you the process starts behind the 8-ball. Owning a business, having viable threats, carrying a lot of money or whatever, has no bearing with my department on issuing a CCW.

[cindynles]

I can tell you from personal experience (my wife used to work in the unit that does this for our dept) if you don't articulate your request well enough or if you don't turn in all of the paperwork given to you the process starts behind the 8-ball. Owning a business, having viable threats, carrying a lot of money or whatever, has no bearing with my department on issuing a CCW.

Let me give you some examples of the "additional questions" and you tell me if you would answer these knowing that it will become a public record:

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf starting on page 38.

How many alcoholic beverages do you consume in an average week?

Are there other crimes you have committed, for which you have not been caught?

When was the last time you lost control of your temper?

Have you ever driven a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or drugs? If so, when
was the last time?

Have you ever been arrested, detained, or questioned by the police as an adult or juvenile?

How many times, if any, have you had to physically defend yourself?

Is there anything in your background that you are trying to conceal?

Kind of like asking someone "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"

[yzErnie]

Let me give you some examples of the "additional questions" and you tell me if you would answer these knowing that it will become a public record:

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf starting on page 38.



Kind of like asking someone "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"

It is my personal belief those questions are reasonable when submitting for a CCW. What folks need to understand is, for Sheriff's to issue to someone they have to be certain there are no prohibited behaviors in their past or present. If you were the Sheriff wouldn't you want to ensure the same things before you issued?

[cindynles]

No, if I were the Sheriff I would follow the law, just like the Sacramento Sheriff. Isn't it pretty obvious that I am a law abiding citizen after all the background checks? The questions are illegal.

It's pretty easy for someone involved in law enforcement to throw rocks.

So when was the last time you lost your temper? Ever yell at someone? Maybe you shouldn't be involved in law enforcement and be allowed to carry a gun if can't control your temper 100% of the time.

Do you really think your Union would be OK with you having to answer questions like that? Probably not, but you're OK with a regular citizen have to give up their 5th Amendent rights in order to exercise their 2nd.

Do as I say, not as I do......

[yzErnie]

No, if I were the Sheriff I would follow the law, just like the Sacramento Sheriff. Isn't it pretty obvious that I am a law abiding citizen after all the background checks? The questions are illegal.

It's pretty easy for someone involved in law enforcement to throw rocks.

So when was the last time you lost your temper? Ever yell at someone? Maybe you shouldn't be involved in law enforcement and be allowed to carry a gun if can't control your temper 100% of the time.

Do you really think your Union would be OK with you having to answer questions like that? Probably not, but you're OK with a regular citizen have to give up their 5th Amendent rights in order to exercise their 2nd.

Do as I say, not as I do......

Without inflection:
You are reading way to much into what I said. I am trying to help you with some problem solving but that obviously is falling upon bias ears. If you knew me you would know I am one of the most pro 2A and CCW LEOs on my department and probably state wide. Before you cast misinformed opinions around the net perhaps you should get to know the person you are talking about.

[cindynles]

You're right, I apologize for making judgements. I don't know you, but your statements seem to insinuate that you are OK with making citizens jump through hoops above and beyond the PC requirements. You said you thought those questions were reasonable. Obvisouly we disagree on what is considered reasonable.

The orginal issue you and I were debating is if the RSO CCW unit will issue to a "regular" citizen. I still contend that they will not. Sheriff Sniff has a stated policy of:

VALID DEATH THREATS OR HARRASSMENT ARE THE CRITERIA WHERE ISSUANCE OF A CCW PERMIT WILL BE CONSIDERED FOR PERSONAL PROTECTION. THE RIVERSIDE COUNTY SHERIFF DOES NOT ISSUE PERMITS TO “PROVIDE A FEELING OF SAFETY” OR TO ALLEVIATE A “FEAR OF VICTIMIZATION”.

I contend that policy does not apply to 99% of the citizens in Riverside County. It doesn't apply to me, a regular citizen, and I was denied. Could I have played the game better and "crafted" my good cause, kissed up to the CCW unit, gave up my 5th ammendent rights answering illegal questions, and been approved? Possibly. But I shouldn't have to. And in my opinion that means the RSO CCW unit will not issue to a "regular" citizen.

A "regular" citizen should be able to meet the PC requirements and be issued a permit.

[yzErnie]

I never said I agreed with their policies and procedures but there are ways to 'play their game'. If you choose not to play, that is your decision. Your ascertation of 5th amendment violations are without merit but if that is what you want to believe, then so be it.

My department apparently is more receptive to the needs to the good members of our communities. Because of my knowledge of firearms and my pro-active approach to firearm education, both on and off duty, I would like to think I may have had some influence in downtown's decisions regarding CCW.

Sorry you got denied but it may have happened for some reason you'll never know. I'm done trying to explain the process and help you. Please shoot safely.

[AR15Kimo]

Not to butt in here, but as I'm in the process now in San Bernardino County.... I will go out of my way to elaborate anything extra in full detail that I believe will help my cause. I understand San Bernardino County is quite a bit more relaxed on the issue, but still. I think answering the additional "optional" questionaire and giving a little more detail on your cause IE: "I'm an avid hiker and have encountered dangerous animals in which I felt fear for my life on previous occasions before" I'm not sure it would've worked, but I bet it would've increased your odds substantially.

Good luck with the process! In 2012, the victor valley college might be offering the basic course at the new facility in Apple Valley. I'm not sure if you're aware of this. By that time I'll be in level 1. The new facility is said to be state of the art. The shooting range is suppose to be spectacular. The facility is located in Apple valley by the Wal-Mart distribution center.

Can't wait to be the first level 1 class!