LEO's and open carry question?

[Average Joe American]

I am from Nevada so dont beat me up too bad if I dont know Ca law very well lol.

I was wondering...can a Federal LEO (an appointed position non-sworn) open carry off duty with a loaded chamber and mag inserted?

I know that a qualified LEO can carry concealed in Ca. under PC12027 and I believe the federal law LEOSA/HR218 from 2004 allows most officers to carry concealed in all 50 states... and qualified citizens can OC per PC12025 and PC12031 (does not load the firearm)

For the record, I personally would rather carry concealed at all times off duty but if some situation came up where the officer wanted or needed to OC is he exempt from PC12025 & PC12031? Can the officer OC with a full mag inserted and a round in the chamber, off duty?

Are the laws different for sworn officers vs appointed ones with limited jurisdiction?

[Notorious]

You have to give more info on what do you mean by appointed NON-sworn? Non-sworn in state law means you are not LEO.

Do you qualify under LEOSA?

What situation would you need to OC off-duty? I can't really think of any situation where you need to OC off-duty.

[mixicus]

Not sure what you're describing for a job. There are positions that have limited powers that may or may not have CCW privileges such as a level 2 reserve or various unarmed state investigators but that's spelled out. Consult your agency's policies & procedures related to off-duty carry for your job classification. Also are you covered under LEOSA?

By policy, LEA's in my area require concealed off-duty carry with exceptions for shooting events, hunting, etc. Plain clothes open carry is on on-duty thing (training, court, investigations). I suggest default to the most limiting guidelines as policy will follow law.

[Average Joe American]

I was offered a job in San Francisco as a Federal Police officer which is an appointed position (not a sworn position) so it has limited power and jurisdiction only on federal property. I turned it down for personal reasons but it did look like a decent job and they were even going to give me a $7,000 hiring bonus on top of the $50k starting pay. I didnt think it was enough for me and my family to make it in the heart of SF (Presideo/Seacliff area) so I turned it down.

The thing that has always been on my mind was that the officers there said they can carry a concealed weapon in Ca. off duty under the state and federal laws that allow LEO to carry a concealed weapon. The Chief specifically said they were covered under LEOSA.

I know open carry is legal in Ca. and say I wanted to join in on an open carry event, (which I hear is gaining popularity in Ca?) to support the right to OC...would a federal police officer have to remove his mag and remove the round in the chamber to participate in an open carry gathering? I am guessing not many cops participate in these events but I think it would be good community policing if more LEO did.

I know its a stretch of the imagination but I was just wondering, non the less?

[Ron-Solo]

Open carry when you can concealed carry is putting yourself at a tactical disadvantage when off duty.

Most cops don't participate in OC events because too many (not all) become confrontational and some people get "in your face" with the local LE. Bad situation to put yourself into in my opinion.

The opinions in the LE area on OC events run the full spectrum. Of the OC individuals I've encountered in the line of duty, the majority were trying to provoke an incident and were doing their best to intimidate people around them, which is why I was there to begin with. I'm pro-gun but some of these people made me want to take them to jail because of their attitude. I've also encountered many who were polite, non-confrontational, and were just exercising their rights. OC supporters also run the full spectrum too.

I'm not trying to take either side, but looking at it from a tactical standpoint, CCW is far superior to OC when off duty. OC is superior when in uniform and on-duty.

What is needed is drastic change in the state's CCW policy.

Hope this answered your question

Aloha,

Ron

[mixicus]

As an off-duty officer you are under the same laws as every one else plus department policy (and LEOSA). If the department policy sates if carrying off duty, you must carry concealed; you have to carry concealed otherwise you are facing departmental action. So getting ID'd at an OC event and having that get back to your dept or an Lt seeing your face in the paper with a gun on your hip is asking for issues.

[Notorious]

I was offered a job in San Francisco as a Federal Police officer which is an appointed position (not a sworn position) so it has limited power and jurisdiction only on federal property. I turned it down for personal reasons but it did look like a decent job and they were even going to give me a $7,000 hiring bonus on top of the $50k starting pay. I didnt think it was enough for me and my family to make it in the heart of SF (Presideo/Seacliff area) so I turned it down.

The thing that has always been on my mind was that the officers there said they can carry a concealed weapon in Ca. off duty under the state and federal laws that allow LEO to carry a concealed weapon. The Chief specifically said they were covered under LEOSA.

I know open carry is legal in Ca. and say I wanted to join in on an open carry event, (which I hear is gaining popularity in Ca?) to support the right to OC...would a federal police officer have to remove his mag and remove the round in the chamber to participate in an open carry gathering? I am guessing not many cops participate in these events but I think it would be good community policing if more LEO did.

I know its a stretch of the imagination but I was just wondering, non the less?

You can open carry unloaded like anyone else as a citizen of the great socialist state of Kommiefornistan. If you want to join the UOC movement, by all means. Just know the department policy regarding such conduct. Some departments have rules about off duty carry and some don't. Use common sense and good judgment. If you are to do it, maybe you don't want to show affiliation by displaying your badge next to your UOC weapon. It's not the UOC you have to worry about but rather the display of department ID at a political event for personal purposes.

[Foriegn power]

job offers in CA that is un heard of! But sucks it was the S.F!

[rgray]

I do not believe the Federal appointed position would qualify you for concealed carry as the position is a qualified one (non-sworn and only LE on Federal property). As for attending OC events, while I don't necessarily believe in California's gun laws, LE attending OC events is a bad idea IMHO. While I am sure there are many responsible OC folks out there, the OC movement is geared up to be confrontational with LE. I personally would not want to place my livelihood at risk.

[BigDogatPlay]

I was offered a job in San Francisco as a Federal Police officer which is an appointed position (not a sworn position) so it has limited power and jurisdiction only on federal property. I turned it down for personal reasons but it did look like a decent job and they were even going to give me a $7,000 hiring bonus on top of the $50k starting pay. I didnt think it was enough for me and my family to make it in the heart of SF (Presideo/Seacliff area) so I turned it down.

So then was the position:

** US Park Police
** Federal Protective Service (GSA)
** NPS Law Enforcement Ranger
** VA Police

Park Police definitely can and do carry off duty, FPS does as I recall. NPS Rangers don't that I am aware, and VA Police were still unarmed, last time I checked.

And I would never recommend OC when off duty.

[AvyDriver]

VA police are armed off-duty now


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[BigDogatPlay]

VA police are armed off-duty now

Good to know... thanks for the update.

[Notorious]

I still don't recommend it either way.