Need LEO help, transporting a Bullet Button rifle.

[iskra31]

I've spent about an hour on and off searching for a thread related to my question and can't find anything promising. So I figured I would go directly to the source by asking a LEO, however where I live most of them are not familiar with the bullet button system and cannot answer my questions about transporting. Some people I talk to tell me to transport with the magazine inserted and locked in(unloaded), so it does not have the ability to accept a HI-CAP magazine. I know with other rifles, having an empty magazine inserted still makes it a loaded gun if you get pulled over. I was wondering if it is different for an AR-15's because it NEEDS a fixed magazine to be legal, so do I leave the magazine in when transporting or just take it out and store it separate from the gun? Also if it doesn't have a fixed magazine, then it HAS the ability to accept a HI-CAP magazine?
Thank you for the clarification!
Sincerely, Young Gun Enthusiast

[MAVERICK]

I've spent about an hour on and off searching for a thread related to my question and can't find anything promising. So I figured I would go directly to the source by asking a LEO, however where I live most of them are not familiar with the bullet button system and cannot answer my questions about transporting. Some people I talk to tell me to transport with the magazine inserted and locked in(unloaded), so it does not have the ability to accept a HI-CAP magazine. I know with other rifles, having an empty magazine inserted still makes it a loaded gun if you get pulled over. I was wondering if it is different for an AR-15's because it NEEDS a fixed magazine to be legal, so do I leave the magazine in when transporting or just take it out and store it separate from the gun? Also if it doesn't have a fixed magazine, then it HAS the ability to accept a HI-CAP magazine?
Thank you for the clarification!
Sincerely, Young Gun Enthusiast

Having an empty magazine inserted in the rifle makes it unloaded, just like having an empty magazine out of the rifle make it also unloaded.

[Librarian]

No you do NOT need a magazine inserted into your bullet-button equipped rifle.

Here's why.

There are two ways to use the term 'detachable magazine'.

The 'common usage' is "Look, it goes in, it comes out, see, it's detachable!"

That's not the 'legal usage'. The legal usage talks about not the magazine, but the gun.

The 'assault weapon' restriction is on semiautomatic, center fire rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine.
California Code of Regulations 5469 says

(a)
"detachable magazine" means
any ammunition feeding device
that can be removed readily from the firearm
with neither disassembly of the firearm action
nor use of a tool being required.

A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

A 'bullet button' or other magazine release restricting device CHANGES the rifle so removal of any magazine requires using a tool.

The rifle remains modified, whether or not there is a magazine in the magazine well.

You also ask

Also if it doesn't have a fixed magazine, then it HAS the ability to accept a HI-CAP magazine?

Not quite.

A fixed-magazine rifle, as a bullet-button-equipped rifle becomes, is restricted to 10 round (or fewer) mags, because a different part of the PC about 'assault weapons' says a fixed-mag semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a capacity greater than 10 is an 'assault weapon'.

But just removing the bullet-button does not allow you to use large-capacity magazines; you must ALSO modify the rifle to be 'featureless' - no pistol grip, no folding or collapsible stock, no flash-hider.

Summary:
Normal-looking AR type: bullet-button + 10-round mags.

Funny-looking 'featureless 'AR type: no bullet-button, large-capacity mags if you legally have them.

[Notorious]

Transport it with the empty mag in and the bolt locked back open with one of those yellow chamber flags in it. That's your easiest solution.

There's so much FUD out there that you're taking chances with all the various interpretations and applications out there.

If OC'ers can walk around with an empty mag inserted into their openly carried pistols, you can surely drive with an unloaded rifle with an empty mag in the trunk of your car.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I prefer transporting my ARs with empty magazines in them just to avoid having to educate an uninformed officer.

[Notorious]

In the end, I think it won't matter. You most likely won't be searched and even so, you would disclose and the LEO will handle the weapon, not you. He will verify unloaded condition and that'll be that. You decide how you want it. In the end, an unloaded gun is an unloaded gun. I keep empty mags in mine to make it a fixed 10 shot rifle, but that's just me.

[Backcountry]

I know with other rifles, having an empty magazine inserted still makes it a loaded gun if you get pulled over.

FAIL. What "you know" is wrong.

[PatriotnMore]

Advice you can trust. Also, I would add, you should print out and have with you at all times, the flow chart.

No you do NOT need a magazine inserted into your bullet-button equipped rifle.

Here's why.

There are two ways to use the term 'detachable magazine'.

The 'common usage' is "Look, it goes in, it comes out, see, it's detachable!"

That's not the 'legal usage'. The legal usage talks about not the magazine, but the gun.

The 'assault weapon' restriction is on semiautomatic, center fire rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine.
California Code of Regulations 5469 saysA 'bullet button' or other magazine release restricting device CHANGES the rifle so removal of any magazine requires using a tool.

The rifle remains modified, whether or not there is a magazine in the magazine well.

You also ask Not quite.

A fixed-magazine rifle, as a bullet-button-equipped rifle becomes, is restricted to 10 round (or fewer) mags, because a different part of the PC about 'assault weapons' says a fixed-mag semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a capacity greater than 10 is an 'assault weapon'.

But just removing the bullet-button does not allow you to use large-capacity magazines; you must ALSO modify the rifle to be 'featureless' - no pistol grip, no folding or collapsible stock, no flash-hider.

Summary:
Normal-looking AR type: bullet-button + 10-round mags.

Funny-looking 'featureless 'AR type: no bullet-button, large-capacity mags if you legally have them.

[Librarian]

I prefer transporting my ARs with empty magazines in them just to avoid having to educate an uninformed officer.

Yes, such is the world we live in. There's 'do what is legal' and 'do what you have to do extra to make it through the day'.

[TBX]

El Dorado County Sheriff Deputies were fine with me and a couple of friends with magless ARs

[tyrist]

An empty magazine attached to the rifle is definitely not a loaded rifle. Otherwise an SKS or M1 Garand would be loaded at all times. You don't need the magazine inserted and actually for the sake of good habits it is best not to have the magazine in an empty gun anyway.

[oldsmoboat]

Advice you can trust. Also, I would add, you should print out and have with you at all times, the flow chart.

I have the flowchart and the letter from Sac PD laminated and in the rifle case.

[Notorious]

Some local gunstores will absolutely have a **** fit and not let you in the store if you have an AR with no mag in the gun. Their policy. I brought in my RAW and showed them my letter and the whole store came to see the letter because none of them haw ever seen a RAW letter.

[TBX]

Sierra arms modesto

Some local gunstores will absolutely have a **** fit and not let you in the store if you have an AR with no mag in the gun. Their policy. I brought in my RAW and showed them my letter and the whole store came to see the letter because none of them haw ever seen a RAW letter.

Yeah I was grilled by a guy over at Sierra arms in Modesto last summer for not bringing my mag. The stupidest part about it was that it was only the complete lower with bb installed. He also gave me hell because my bullet button was a little loose. He said it was "illegal." I was like WTF..