DPO (Part Time/On-Call) CCW?

[JJKESSEL]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=198201

Old thread, won't let me reply. Link is above.

Simply, does the 12027 law that allows Deputy Probation Officers (830.5) to carry CCW while off duty also apply to Part Time/On Call DPO positions?

Thanks.

[center_x]

Im not sure about 12027, but I do know your dept policy will answer it. Atleast it should.

[Watchur6]

Just out of curiosity, what dept. Has part time or on call DPO's? If u don't mind me asking.

[RollingCode3]

The last I heard probation officers may only carry on duty if AUTHORIZED to do so by their agency. However, they may carry off duty with or without permission.

[JJKESSEL]

Just out of curiosity, what dept. Has part time or on call DPO's? If u don't mind me asking.

The position I was looking at is El Dorado. The have a DPO-Institutions which is on call/part time. There are actually quite a few, the may not exactly call themselves DPO like El Dorado does, for example CoCo calls them Probation Counselors, but they both fall under 830.5.

[SJgunguy24]

The last I heard probation officers may only carry on duty if AUTHORIZED to do so by their agency. However, they may carry off duty with or without permission.

We have a regular customer who is a probation officer and he tells me they're forbidden from carrying on or off duty as departmental policy. He is fully sworn and can carry anytime he chooses but his job currently dictates his safety. It's BS and he's trying to get on with the SO for the same county.

[BigDogatPlay]

It tends to vary a lot from county to count, and it is entirely to the employing agency's discretion. My wife worked on the admin side of our county's probation department and the only DPOs I was aware of who were carrying were the couple of guys working violent felony probationers and / or with the local gang task force. Pretty much the rest of the sworn staff did not carry on or off duty.

[Watchur6]

The employer of a probation officer who falls under 830.5 cannot restrict the off duty carry of any officer. They may not provide any legal defense if they do not approve but they cannot restrict off duty carry. All liability falls on the officer. The employer can only restrict on duty carry. This is only in california and if the officer falls under 830.5. This has been talked about a lot, its a grey area and you can get tangled up in the wording but that is it explained in its basic form. REMEMBER, ALL Liability falls on you. Make sure its clean, make sure your trained and make sure you pay into some kind of legal defense fund.

[CaptMike]

Simply, does the 12027 law that allows Deputy Probation Officers (830.5) to carry CCW while off duty also apply to Part Time/On Call DPO positions?

Thanks.

JJ, it is completely dependant on the Department. If the department you are looking at swears in their reserve DPO's as Peace Officers, then you are good to go under the existing case law. The department is the one that has to bestow upon you the status of a Peace Officer. The title of DPO does not bestow any authority.

For example, my Department has bestowed Peace Officer Status to all full time Deputy Probation Officers and Detention Services Officers. The Reserve DPO's are not granted Peace Officer status, therefore, they cannot carry off duty. The full time officers ID cards state, "this person is a duly appointed Peace Officer under CPC 830.5". the reserve ID states that they are only reserve employees of the department. So the reserves in our department cannot carry CCW. I would recommend that you talk to the reserve coordinator of the department you are looking at and ask them if reserves have Peace Officer Status. good luck

[JJKESSEL]

JJ, it is completely dependant on the Department. If the department you are looking at swears in their reserve DPO's as Peace Officers, then you are good to go under the existing case law. The department is the one that has to bestow upon you the status of a Peace Officer. The title of DPO does not bestow any authority.

For example, my Department has bestowed Peace Officer Status to all full time Deputy Probation Officers and Detention Services Officers. The Reserve DPO's are not granted Peace Officer status, therefore, they cannot carry off duty. The full time officers ID cards state, "this person is a duly appointed Peace Officer under CPC 830.5". the reserve ID states that they are only reserve employees of the department. So the reserves in our department cannot carry CCW. I would recommend that you talk to the reserve coordinator of the department you are looking at and ask them if reserves have Peace Officer Status. good luck

Thanks Lt. This makes sense. Does the "qualifying" I have read about refer to on-duty carry? Or does this refer to off-duty carry too? The reason I ask is because it would seam odd for a department that doesn't let their officers carry on duty to have anything to do with them qualifying.

Again, guys.. If I do get picked up I will have all of the questions answered by my department. I just have a fascination with finding answers before the question is even asked. =)

[RollingCode3]

Thanks Lt. This makes sense. Does the "qualifying" I have read about refer to on-duty carry? Or does this refer to off-duty carry too? The reason I ask is because it would seam odd for a department that doesn't let their officers carry on duty to have anything to do with them qualifying.

Again, guys.. If I do get picked up I will have all of the questions answered by my department. I just have a fascination with finding answers before the question is even asked. =)

If they dont want you to carry on duty, of course they will not let you carry off duty. You have to find a place to qualify on your own and pay out of your pocket.

[Pryde]

If you are working for LA county, you can qualify at LASD ranges.

The law states that you need to qualify 4 times a year to carry off duty.

[CaptMike]

Thanks Lt. This makes sense. Does the "qualifying" I have read about refer to on-duty carry? Or does this refer to off-duty carry too? The reason I ask is because it would seam odd for a department that doesn't let their officers carry on duty to have anything to do with them qualifying. =)

Hey JJ

If your department gives you Peace Officer Status, then you are good to go off duty. On duty is a different situation. Here are the Basics.

Deputy Probation Officers Peace Officer authority comes from California Penal Code 830.5. Essentially we are limited Peace Officers. What that means is that we have the authority of a peace officer only when we are on duty. We have no authority off duty but we still maintain the "Status" of a peace officer.

There was a case out of Orange County Probation that dealt with an off duty DPO carrying a concealed weapon. the DPO was arrested for unauthorized CCW, because the Chief of OC Probation had let it be know that he did not authorize his Deputies to carry off duty. The criminal CCW case was thrown out because the Judge said the DPO was a peace officer and was authorized to carry off duty, but the Chief fired the DPO for violating his standing order. The DPO sued for his job and ultimately won. The judge hearing the case asked the Attorney General of California at the time for his opinion on the situation. The AG stated that even though DPO have authority only on duty, they still have the "Status" of a peace officer 24hrs a day.

The example I give in the Academy with new DPO recruits is this, I ask them "Now that you are in the field of Law Enforcement, can you still get drunk at home?". some will say, yes, when I am at home I can do what I want. I then explain to them that even though you are off duty, you are on call 24hrs a day. You can be ordered back to work at any moment. Also, The people of the state of California have given peace officers alot of authority, and for this authority, they expect us to use it appropriately for the protection of all residents. The people do not expect their Police Officers, Deptuy Probation Officers or any other public safety officers behaving like drunken fools. therefore, if they want to be public safety officers, they must behave like a professional 24 hours a day.

Since we have the status of peace officer 24 hrs a day, the AG stated that we are covered under PC 12027. The judge hearing the case agreed with and cited the AG opinion, therefore creating case law. Now, all DPO's that have peace officer authority are covered by case law and may carry off duty.

On Duty, the AG opinion stated that DPO's may only carry at the discretion of the Chief. The Chief dictates on duty carry, but the AG stated that the Chief Probation Officer has no authority to prevent off duty carry.

If we decided to carry off duty and our chief did not authorize off duty carry, then all Liability rests on us. the department will not support you in any way if you are involved in a shooting or you choose to draw your weapon on someone off duty.

To maintain our ability to carry, we have to qualify with our weapon quarterly. If we fail to qualify, the right to carry can be suspended. The greater worry is that all liability rests on us and if we dont qualify and we get in a shooting, any good attorney will pull our training records. If we dont show qualifications, then that could be used against us in court. So if you are a limited peace officer and you decide to carry, you have to qualify to protect yourself.

Hope this helps out. I am attaching a copy of the AG opinion for you to read. I dont remember the OC case by name right now, but Liberty may pop in hear with that info for you. Take care and good luck in the process.

[Notorious]

I knew a reserve LA County DPO and he could not carry off duty.

Now with LEOSA being expanded, and having it apply across the spectrum of peace officers, I hear departments can no longer prohibit off duty carry to their employees if they otherwise qualify under LEOSA.

There was another thread that discussed this, to include the LA City General Service Police who are prohibited specifically by statute from carrying off duty even though they carry on duty and are 24 hour peace officers. The opinion is that LEOSA trumps that section of the Penal Code prohibiting their off duty carrying because it is federal law that grants all qualified peace officers the right to carry off duty nationwide.

[JJKESSEL]

Lt, again, great answer.. exactly what I was looking for. I know there are a few DPOs in here, why is it that DPOs make less money than SO and PD Officers? Especially since DPOs usually must have a BA degree.... Any thoughts?

Thanks also Notorious.... Yeah, I guess reserve DPOs is a whole other ball game.