High Capacity Magazine

[8600]

Maybe not a new topic but new for me. I have reviewed the PC section pertaining to HiCap magazines and am confused over legality. It addresses buying selling loaning and giving, but not possessing. If I owned my magazines back in 1998 and they have never left the state, and do not buy sell give or loan, am I legal in possessing and using them, especially when carrying my weapon with my CCW permit?

[mej16489]

Maybe not a new topic but new for me. I have reviewed the PC section pertaining to HiCap magazines and am confused over legality. It addresses buying selling loaning and giving, but not possessing. If I owned my magazines back in 1998 and they have never left the state, and do not buy sell give or loan, am I legal in possessing and using them, especially when carrying my weapon with my CCW permit?

Perfectly legal as you've described it...

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
...
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.
...
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
...
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
possessed in the state.
...
(c) (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

[yzErnie]

Maybe not a new topic but new for me. I have reviewed the PC section pertaining to HiCap magazines and am confused over legality. It addresses buying selling loaning and giving, but not possessing. If I owned my magazines back in 1998 and they have never left the state, and do not buy sell give or loan, am I legal in possessing and using them, especially when carrying my weapon with my CCW permit?

Based upon this scenario, yes, they are legal for you to possess and carry.

[Notorious]

Any regular capacity magazines owned prior to the ban date is perfectly legal to retain and use in any lawful manner. You just can't sell them to non-LEO's.

[Librarian]

... and it seems you might find the Calguns Foundation Wiki useful - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions and other topics.

[Cement]

do you have to have proof that youve owned it since before 2000. or can you just say you have?

[Lumpy8]

In the above link, I do not read it being illegal to "possess", "purchase" or "receive as a gift" a magazine capable of carrying more than 10 rounds.

The onus seems to be on the person selling, giving or importing into the State.

If someone wants to "give" me a magazine capable of carrying more that 10 rounds, is it illegal for me to receive and possess said magazine?

If I "find" at the range a magazine capable of carrying more that 10 rounds, is it illegal for me to take control and possess said magazine?

Is it unlawful for me to "purchase" an assembled magazine capable of carrying more than 10 rounds?

Not going into scenarios of having to provide proof to the courts of where and how magazines came into possession, what are your answers?

Is it illegal to "purchase", "receive as gift", or "find" and take possession of a magazine capable or carrying more that 10 rounds?

[CSACANNONEER]

do you have to have proof that youve owned it since before 2000. or can you just say you have?

How is anyone going to prove that the mags they bought at a garage sale in 1978 are theirs? Or even the guns they bought at the same garage sale?

[jtmkinsd]

do you have to have proof that youve owned it since before 2000. or can you just say you have?

The burden of proof is on the State. This is really a murky/confusing subject. Possession of a hi-cap magazine is not illegal. In order to be prosecuted...the State would have to prove you "manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends" the hi-cap magazine.

So...simply having one...even if it's date stamped after the law took effect, does not constitute a crime. Unless the State can prove you obtained the magazine illegally.

[Librarian]

There is no need to explain how one might have come into possession of a large-capacity magazine; there are no record-keeping requirements.

Since that is so, discussions of 'finding' them are out of bounds. They don't pass anybody's laugh test.

As to the other ways mentioned, is it neighborly of one to allow another person to commit a crime? Is it wise of one to participate in another's crime?

You have the right to remain silent. Those who might question have the burden of proof on them.

[Notorious]

Well... There are some areas where the proof is not that hard for the state to establish. For example, the full metal lined Glock magazines with the dual sided mag catch cut outs were not made prior to 2000. Also, if you are under 28 right now, how do you explain all the regular capacity magazines on your possession since you weren't old enough to own firearms in 2000? Did you go buy a whole bunch thinking that you were going to head off the ban?

The popular Pmags were also not available in 2000. So while you might be able to explain that you rebuilt existing Glock mags with the new outer case, you will not be able to explain how you rebuilt a Pmag.

[1911su16b870]

Another question...are LEOs allowed to purchase > 10 round magazines from private parties?

I am thinking the buying is ok, but the selling w/o CA DOJ high cap magazine permit is not...

[Notorious]

My understanding is that LEOs can buy and sell to each other or just transfer them to each other for free. The law exempts us from the restrictions on regular capacity magazines and I know private parties that have sold regular cap magazines to LEOs when they sold their guns.

[RobT2K]

You could use a p mag rebuild kit to rebuild an old gi magazine. Just don't make any more magazines then you started with.

[Cokebottle]

do you have to have proof that youve owned it since before 2000. or can you just say you have?

Burden of proof is upon the state to show that you imported or assembled them after the ban.

That's the stupid thing about the way the law is written.
It implies that mere possession is illegal, since it refers to magazines "legally possessed in California prior to the ban", but mere possession is not in and of itself illegal, nor is purchasing. It is legal to purchase, it is just not legal to sell (or offer for sale).