California CCW Shall Issue

[Hopalong]

Several parts to this question:

First: How would the average LEO feel about California going shall issue for CCW, and if pro, what percentage are willing to voice their opinion in their work setting?

Second: How long would it take for the mindset of LE to change to where they were used to an armed citizenry? For example, I doubt any LEO in Arizona or Texas would ever ask a citizen with a CCW, "why do you need a gun?

Third: If the politics, favoritism, and money were taken out of the "good cause" equation, where issuing agencies had the political cover of a shall issue state law...would the sheriffs and police chiefs be relieved, or would they really fear law abiding citizens with guns?

I'm trying to figure out, since we are all Americans, how is it that LE in other states (Arizona, Texas, Vermont) seem to be so different than here in California. If it's not politics, what is it? Does training play a part?

What sheriff wouldn't love to run their county like that Sheriff Arpaio from southern Arizona?

[Btown]

why r u blaming this on cops???? Its the libs that surrond u that have the problem. The cops just do what the libs want.

[Hopalong]

I'm not blaming anything on anyone.

I guess I interpret your answer as "politics"

If you understood my question, I'm trying to find how cops feel, politics aside.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Several parts to this question:

First: How would the average LEO feel about California going shall issue for CCW, and if pro, what percentage are willing to voice their opinion in their work setting?

Answer: All for it!!! Voicing it all the time at work!

Second: How long would it take for the mindset of LE to change to where they were used to an armed citizenry?

Answer: How long will it take? When hell freezes over in SoCal and San Francisco, thats how long!

Third: If the politics, favoritism, and money were taken out of the "good cause" equation, where issuing agencies had the political cover of a shall issue state law...would the sheriffs and police chiefs be relieved, or would they really fear law abiding citizens with guns?

Answer: Chiefs and Sheriff's that are currently anti-gun wouldn't care one way or the other about being relieved of liability. They would still preach "thumbs down" for CCW for us "California Subject." Especially the LAPD Chief, LASD Sheriff and Orange County Sheriff!

I'm trying to figure out, since we are all Americans, how is it that LE in other states (Arizona, Texas, Vermont) seem to be so different than here in California. If it's not politics, what is it? Does training play a part?

Answer: Nope, it's just the "anti-hysteria" of LE "leaders" that plain out don't like guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.

What sheriff wouldn't love to run their county like that Sheriff Arpaio from southern Arizona?

Answer: Sheriffs Lee Baca and Sandra Hutches to name only a few.

[00BuckShot]

Btown, I didn't see any blame placing here. It was just a question about how LEO's feel about citizens carrying guns.

Now to the Sheriff Arpaio...from what I hear he's an a***hole. I have two friends that work for him, one in corrections and one Sheriff's Deputy. They both hate his guts. So the question is what Sheriff WOULD want to run his department like him?

Although, I'm not a law enforcement officer, I AM a huge gun enthusiast and through my employment I get the chance to interact with LEO's on a daily basis. I can't think of one that has not encouraged my CCW application.

[Hopalong]

Btown, I didn't see any blame placing here. It was just a question about how LEO's feel about citizens carrying guns.

Now to the Sheriff Arpaio...from what I hear he's an a***hole. I have two friends that work for him, one in corrections and one Sheriff's Deputy. They both hate his guts. So the question is what Sheriff WOULD want to run his department like him?

Although, I'm not a law enforcement officer, I AM a huge gun enthusiast and through my employment I get the chance to interact with LEO's on a daily basis. I can't think of one that has not encouraged my CCW application.

Well, he's got a good pr team them, and got me fooled.

I thought he was tough on crime, what do your friends have against that?

And that's my point about your LEO contacts, same as mine.

So why is it that the flavor of California LE, at least officially, seems to be "no guns for law abiding citizens"

[SoCalDep]

Arpaio is a grandstanding political glutton for media attention. He just happens to be one with whom many of us agree as opposed to the political climate in CA.

I'd be all for CCW. Some deps would be pro, others con, and it would likely reflect a little more "pro" than the average for the rest of the population.

[SoCalDep]

So why is it that the flavor of California LE, at least officially, seems to be "no guns for law abiding citizens"

Because county Sheriff's are elected by the population in California which leans liberal, to say the least. Police Chiefs are appointed by city governments who are elected by the population in California which leans liberal, to say the least.

Those in charge have the biggest voice.

That's why. No more, no less.

[Hopalong]

Because county Sheriff's are elected by the population in California which leans liberal, to say the least. Police Chiefs are appointed by city governments who are elected by the population in California which leans liberal, to say the least.

Those in charge have the biggest voice.

That's why. No more, no less.

Ok, so another vote for politics. I totally agree.

But, if there was "political cover", and the decision was taken totally out of their hands by state law, with no re-election consequences, don't you think they would sing a different tune. One that was more in tune with their core beliefs?

[SoCalDep]

Ok, so another vote for politics. I totally agree.

But, if there was "political cover", and the decision was taken totally out of their hands by state law, with no re-election consequences, don't you think they would sing a different tune. One that was more in tune with their core beliefs?

I doubt it...They were elected because of their beliefs and they won't change if Shall-Issue passes...The convenient part about shall-issue is that it won't matter.

[retired]

Ok, so another vote for politics. I totally agree.

But, if there was "political cover", and the decision was taken totally out of their hands by state law, with no re-election consequences, don't you think they would sing a different tune. One that was more in tune with their core beliefs?

As TrailerparkTrash said: Not the LAPD Chief, LASD Sheriff and Orange County Sheriff!

Baca was quoted in a video available on Youtube as saying he was fine with less than 500 ccw in his county. L.A. is a county of 10 million plus and he issues to judges, ADAs, retired deputies (me), celebrities (i.e. Stallone) and political contributors. There might be that odd DV victim or person who carries a high amount of valuables that obtain one, but for the most part, the list I provided is all he issues to.

While still active, I once asked my Association (sgt. & lts.) if they would actively support a shall issue ccw law and the then President said no. He wouldn't really provide a reason for his response.

I am for it and was so before retiring.

[BigDogatPlay]

FWIW, I don't think you're going to get the opinion of the average California LEO in these pages. We're the "gun guys". That said I always believed I never had a thing to fear from a law abiding person who chose to go armed for their protection.

I am, and always have been, pro-CCW issuance. Any number of chiefs I worked for or know, on the other hand, are not.

[Hopalong]

FWIW, I don't think you're going to get the opinion of the average California LEO in these pages. We're the "gun guys". That said I always believed I never had a thing to fear from a law abiding person who chose to go armed for their protection.

I am, and always have been, pro-CCW issuance. Any number of chiefs I worked for or know, on the other hand, are not.

Fair enough.

Since a sheriff or chief is primarily a politician, and a politician's beliefs seem to flap in the breeze, I guess we'll never know what they really believe.

[Notorious]

I am all for good citizens getting a CCW. Heck, I have never known a criminal to be hampered by any of CA's laws prohibiting carrying a gun or committing a crime with a gun. That is the simplest way to put it, and for some reason, politicians refuse to comprehend.

My coworkers and brass all feel the same way but we are not the ones you have to convince. Try those libtards in Sacramento or the hypocrites like Feinstein and Boxer.

[yzErnie]

So why is it that the flavor of California LE, at least officially, seems to be "no guns for law abiding citizens"

This is not true for every county and city. Please do not blanketly assume this to be factual as this is contrary to real experience.

Despite what the anti-gun folks want the public to believe, there are many counties and cities that have Sheriff's or Chief's that are willing to issue. Their philosophy is act stupid, lose your CCW...as it should be.