question about getting pulled over and rights of passengers

[SVT-40]

Maybe you should start from the beginning.

When you said you made a complaint did you call the station and talk to a supervisor? Or did you go to the station and actually fill out the departments citizen complaint form, sign it and give it to a supervisor?

If it's the first where you called and wanted the officer spoken to about his attitude. I'm sure that's what happened. Informal counseling. That's why no one ever got back to you.

If it's the second where you actually made a written complaint, then you should have received some sort of letter from the department advising you of the outcome.

Just to clear another thing up "Community services" has nothing to do with complaints. They are handled strictly by IA and the information is not privy to anyone but IA and the officer (s) involved.

Usually if a formal written complaint is made the IA investigator will follow up with the citizen who made the complaint just to be sure he has the correct info and to clear up any questions he may have.

Additionally if a officer acts as you said he did he should be disciplined.


You posted your reply before I got mine posted...

Did you write a letter making the complaint? If you did you should have received some sort of reply.

[planedude86]

I'm in no way looking for the officer to be punished or anything like that. Actually the only response I was really expecting was maybe just a courtesy call from the community relations department or somthing to inform me that they received the complaint and was looking into it. Thats really it. The officer in no way commited any crime so I see no reason for him to be punished. Maybe just be told something like "be a little nicer to people you pull over". I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe he had a rough day or week or whatever. I mean I know its hard to think that especially when you hear them laughing at you after they make comments like "because you could be a cop killer". But whatever, I don't know him, I don't know his situation. I just always thought that if you gave someone respect that they should in turn give it back. Thats all really.

A competent investigator or review board would have acknowledged your complaint and informed you of its disposition. Many departments have policies against rude and unprofessional behavior. Despite the length of time that has elapsed, I still suggest finding out what happened.

When you work with the public, you leave your issues at home. When you attempt to verbally de-escalate a situation, having your personal issues influencing your behavior is dangerous.

[sly409]

Maybe you should start from the beginning.

When you said you made a complaint did you call the station and talk to a supervisor? Or did you go to the station and actually fill out the departments citizen complaint form, sign it and give it to a supervisor? I went down to the station and ask the lady at the front desk for a form to file out for a formal complaint. Filed it out on the spot and turned in right in. I would have called but I dont actually know that citys police station number or even who to talk to about this

If it's the first where you called and wanted the officer spoken to about his attitude. I'm sure that's what happened. Informal counseling. That's why no one ever got back to you. Nope, I filed out a form.

If it's the second where you actually made a written complaint, then you should have received some sort of letter from the department advising you of the outcome. A letter would have been great. Thats all I was looking for. That or a call to say they received it.

Just to clear another thing up "Community services" has nothing to do with complaints. They are handled strictly by IA and the information is not privy to anyone but IA and the officer (s) involved. I did not know that. The lady at the front desk said something about the complaint going to the community relations department and they would handle it after that.

Usually if a formal written complaint is made the IA investigator will follow up with the citizen who made the complaint just to be sure he has the correct info and to clear up any questions he may have. I'll have to remember to turn in any future complaints to this IA investigator person.

Additionally if a officer acts as you said he did he should be disciplined. I think a stern talk from his supervisor would suffice, I would not want someone to lose their job, get demoted or anything like that over something so silly. A little attitude adjustment goes a long way.

Thanks

[SVT-40]

No problem. I can't say why no one followed up. They should have.

Regarding discipline. bBeing a jerk like the officer you described would probably receive a written reprimand for this sort of behavior. Unless he had a history of these type of complaints. Then he could get some time off.

Firing or demotion would not usually be in the cards for being a jerk. Unless he had a real history of this sort of thing and had received many many similar complaints. So I would not worry about that.

Besides it's the officers fault if he breaks departmental rules. It's not your fault for reporting him!!

[sly409]

Yea well thanks for all the advice! I'll definitely remember it if anything like this ever happens again...I hope not!

[fight.or.flight]

Good Nite

[TrailerparkTrash]

If I say the passenger is 11550, he's 11550! Next question?

[Deft]

Regarding discipline. bBeing a jerk like the officer you described would probably receive a written reprimand for this sort of behavior. Unless he had a history of these type of complaints. Then he could get some time off.

Firing or demotion would not usually be in the cards for being a jerk. Unless he had a real history of this sort of thing and had received many many similar complaints. So I would not worry about that.

I always wondered, how concerned are police departments about their public image? Given how much of an officer's job revolves around the cooperation of the public, I would think it should be a high priority (safety being #1 of course). I mean it must make the job much harder if everyone you stop or talk to is hostile and/or uncooperative.

Anecdotal evidence, but from my work peers (mostly Asian and White upper middle class engineering and scientists) the predominant associated emotion with the police is fear, with a large dose of uncertainty. While my friends from the ranch (horseback sports, cowboy mounted types, White middle/upper middle mostly because horses eat all your money) view police with a certain respect, and also uncertainty. Most people aren't lawyers and even the ones who are respectful of the police are terribly confused when it comes to the law and the officer's rights of behaviour with in it.

It always struck me that police use that uncertainly to great advantage, as people, fearful or respectful, are confused they cede a great deal of control to officers during any interactions. Is this observation off-base? Is there a conscious effort on the part of police departments to train their officers to take advantage of this mindset?

I don't mean any of this as an attack on the police departments by the way, I've just been curious because the attitude towards cops among literally everyone I know is heavily tinged with confusion about what they are actually allowed to do/ask and lean towards a mentality of "whatever, just let them do what they want I have nothing to hide" which, from a societal perspective, seems to be a terrible idea. I realize my sample size is heavily biased because of where I work and the hobbies I have result in a predominantly upper-middle graduate degree crowd. These observations probably don't hold among those in more desperate circumstances but all I have to judge those reactions is what you see in the media which, regardless of political bias, is certainly never accurate.

[non sequitur]

Alameda County DA's Office - Point Of View

The Alameda County District Attorney's Office publishes a useful periodical called Point of View and it's available online. I subscribe to this publication and sometimes review the pertinent articles with my folks at briefing.

Here you go...

http://le.alcoda.org/publications/files/BrendlinUSSC2.pdf

[AAShooter]

The Alameda County District Attorney's Office publishes a useful periodical called Point of View and it's available online. I subscribe to this publication and sometimes review the pertinent articles with my folks at briefing.

Here you go...

http://le.alcoda.org/publications/fi...ndlinUSSC2.pdf

Great publication.

[Samuelx]

I always wondered, how concerned are police departments about their public image?

No one likes when some other LEO gives our job/uniform a black eye. That being said it has to be a righteous black eye - e.g. person caught/convicted of committing a crime and tarnishing a badge or something egregious. When it comes to one-sided stories or retellings of an event, I reserve the right to keep a shaker of morton's close by.

Given how much of an officer's job revolves around the cooperation of the public, I would think it should be a high priority (safety being #1 of course).

The vast majority of us do our jobs professionally. That being said, concern about how we look or what our image is, even if it is #2 (which may or may not be the case) is WAY WAY WAY behind officer safety.

I mean it must make the job much harder if everyone you stop or talk to is hostile and/or uncooperative.

Absolutely. And that type of behavior is going to bring about certain reactions from LE.

Anecdotal evidence, but from my work peers (mostly Asian and White upper middle class engineering and scientists) the predominant associated emotion with the police is fear, with a large dose of uncertainty. While my friends from the ranch (horseback sports, cowboy mounted types, White middle/upper middle mostly because horses eat all your money) view police with a certain respect, and also uncertainty. Most people aren't lawyers and even the ones who are respectful of the police are terribly confused when it comes to the law and the officer's rights of behaviour with in it.

My father was from the same demographics as your work peers - upper mid class research physicist, PHD. He was never afraid of LEOs. Uncertain whether or not he'd get a ticket sure, but never afraid. He brought me up the same way - to respect LEOs and understand the importance of their function in society.

It always struck me that police use that uncertainly to great advantage, as people, fearful or respectful, are confused they cede a great deal of control to officers during any interactions. Is this observation off-base?

Depends on the type of interactions. If it's detention or greater - LEOs have control, period. That has nothing to do with anyone ceding anything. For officer safety, LEOs are trained to establish control as soon as possible and maintain that throughout the contact.

Is there a conscious effort on the part of police departments to train their officers to take advantage of this mindset?

No. Again, doesn't matter what the subject/suspect's mindset is. It's the Type of contact that makes the difference.

I don't mean any of this as an attack on the police departments by the way, I've just been curious because the attitude towards cops among literally everyone I know is heavily tinged with confusion about what they are actually allowed to do/ask and lean towards a mentality of "whatever, just let them do what they want I have nothing to hide" which, from a societal perspective, seems to be a terrible idea.

IME, many people think they know more about the law(s) or what I can or can't do better than me. I haven't had an official interaction yet where the other party was right and I was wrong about that.

I realize my sample size is heavily biased because of where I work and the hobbies I have result in a predominantly upper-middle graduate degree crowd. These observations probably don't hold among those in more desperate circumstances but all I have to judge those reactions is what you see in the media which, regardless of political bias, is certainly never accurate.

Growing up, I never had a bad experience with LE - even when I was being detained for something, even when I was getting tickets, even when I was being yelled at. Why? Because I knew they were doing their jobs, knew I had nothing to hide OR had it coming, was brought up to take responsibility for my actions, and knew that the smoother the contact, the sooner I'd be on my way.

Speaking for me, if you're respectful and cooperative and appear to be a decent productive member of society, you'll be on your way with minimal delay - most of the time, with just a warning about why I stopped you.

[sly409]

sorry to hear about your friend.

I guess different location, different types of cops. I lived in Los Angeles most of my life and I've got to admit, I've seen a mix of good and bad. I always hear good things about small town cops though. I'm sure if I lived in a small county where everyone knew everyone I'd be less likely to run into a cop with a bad attitude. It would actually be nice to know who the local cops were and know them by their first names and have them know who you were too.

[planedude86]

IME, many people think they know more about the law(s) or what I can or can't do better than me. I haven't had an official interaction yet where the other party was right and I was wrong about that.

An old firefighter/paramedic/cop once told me that we forget the details of not only the things we do infrequently, but also of the things we do often. It's easy to become complacent in one's knowledge or competence when it repeatedly yields positive results. However, no one is infallible. That's why constant retraining and refreshing is important. Otherwise, you get medics that mismanage COPD exacerbation, firefighters that can't vent properly, or cops that don't know of People v. Clark.

[AAShooter]

. . . I have no tolerance for lack of integrity in a public service position. . .

Man, with a statement like that, I sure would have liked to peek at your last ballot.

[Samuelx]

Absolutely. Which is why I've never made an illegal arrest, improper detention, had a founded complaint of racial profiling or violation of civil rights, Etc...