Parking a squad-car in a fire lane.....for coffee?

[eltee]

Couple observations from my years (since 1980) as a cop:

1. Cops are human, some drive fast needlessly
2. Cops have been fired for # 1
3. Collisions have claimed the lives of many good cops, driving within the law trying to get somewhere to help someone. Same for fireman.
4. Someone mentioned "...paid the big bucks..." Where? I have worked physically harder and taken enormously greater risks than my siblings and make far, far less than they do. No bonus, no profit sharing, no stock options. I don't think most cops go into the job for money.
5. Blocking access, generally because a cop car gets there first. If your kid was in need of help, would you prefer I park farther away just in case I might block a FD unit? We're rolling the streets when a med emergency call goes out and the typical fire crew is in the firehouse. Yes, I have probably made fire vehicles park a little farther...in order to get myself a little closer to the door so I could get in faster. It's not a conspiracy.
6. Red zones. Yep, I've done it and members under my command do it. If someone takes a pic or makes a call, we take the heat. By the same token, I have seen fire units NOT use an open red zone and double park in the street blocking traffic, etc. for a coffee or burrito stop. Hey, it goes both ways.
7. We serve, in that we (all public safety) work for the general population. None of us are "servants" in the popular sense. I won't help with your plumbing problem, although people ask, but a fireman or policeman will risk his life to protect you from harm or loss of property without a 2nd thought.
8. There is a historical sibling rivalry between police and fire services. We needle each other ALL THE TIME. We have pet names for each other. However, when the SHTF it doesn't matter, I have NEVER seen that rivalry get in the way of taking care of business. I've had the fireguys go way out of the way for me, personally, when I needed their help.
9. I will listen to a rookie out of the academy for crime intel before listening to a screaming fire battalion chief, likewise I expect a fireman to listen to a new volunteer fireman before listening to me (Lt.) screaming something about fire. It's the nature of our diverse disciplines.
10. Isn't this all much ado about nothing? I confess, I have parked in all colors of parking zones in non-emergency, non-official situations. Done the same as an off duty person in my POV. If I get jammed, I pay the piper.
11. In the immortal words of the contemporary bard, Rodney King, "C-c-c-can't we all jest git along?"

Peace out.

[Ron-Solo]

This is the truth I have seen it more then once where a LEO has blocked us in or blocked our access. Take a look at how everyone parks next time.

That a two way street. I've seen fire appratus block more access than LE units.


Congrats on saving a life this is definitely not the norm.

Happens a lot. I have more saves than I can count over the years

How Many LEO's have an EMT or performed CPR other then in a class room? not many.

A lot more than you think

It not a good Idea to take the child to the hospital by squad car.

That decision is always a difficult one and should never be taken lightly. It must be made based on the individual circumstances. For you to issue a blanket statement is inappropriate


Most every FD in Ca run Paramedic engines there a life saving drugs that you don't have and the national response time on scene is 5 min. It is better to start CPR and wait for the the FD to get on scene so that they can tube and push drugs.
,
Your "National Response Time" is a pipe dream and is a swayed statistic. If you think you can wait for the station to wake up in the middle of the night, get dressed, and even clear the station before the first LE unit is on scene you're out of touch. Add drive that big bulky engine 5 miles to the scence and there is no way you can be there in 5 minutes.

If I can be on scene 2 minutes from the time the person MAKES THE CALL with multiple units (BTW, our department does it all the time), and the local ER is a two minute drive, Those are the things I take into account when making such a decision. If I can have that baby in a doctor's hands before you clear your station, I might make that run.


I don't dislike cops.

Sounds like you have some issues

I'm a Fire Captain/Peace Officer

Having 'peace officer' powers does not make someone a cop.


My point is this: Blanket statements so not serve a useful purpose.

[Triad]

Congrats on saving a life this is definitely not the norm. How Many LEO's have an EMT or performed CPR other then in a class room? not many .....


I don't dislike cops. I'm a Fire Captain/Peace Officer

Its stuff like that that pisses me off. How can you possibly know what I (or any of the thousands of cops everywhere else) have done in my career? Your just asking for a pissing match.

And peace officer and cop aren't synonymous. If you think so, I'll give you a call the next time I am dispatched to a 261/288

[retired]

Take it down a notch everyone so this does not have to be locked.

[viet4lifeOC]

I never parked my patrol car illegally to get coffee, lunch or on an errand. It sets a bad example.

One day an out of town patrol car parked in a red zone and fire hydrant zone. Parking there made it difficult for cars making a right turn and it also was a vision safety zone. It was in front of a Starbucks and I enforced the parking violations heavily there since it was a very busy downtown area. I drove past and asked the Officers to move thier car. One of them got PO'ed. They got into thier car and made a beeline to my supervisor to complain about me.

There just happened to be one of our Officers in the Starbucks at the time. He later told me a customer came up to him after seeing me ask the Officers to move and said he appreciated the local Officer (me) for being fair to everyone and having the Officers move their car.

I did meet up with my supervisor with the other Officers we all hashed out why I had asked them to leave.

If an Officer is on a call for service, you park where you have to.

I don't like a double standard. It sets a bad example and people are out there watching.

WOW...I sincerely applaud your action and your standards. Wished most LEOs were like you. Maybe one day I'll drop my generalization that the only difference between a cop and a thug is a tarnished badge .

If you make a leo bashing comment like that again in this forum, you won't be permitted in this forum again. Knock off the leo bashing.

retired

[Spanky8601]

Ron

Your post #77 was right on.

For Maverick, like Rodney King (famous felon) said: "Can't we all just get along"

[MAVERICK]

Gezz you guys are overly sensitive. You would never make it in a firehouse.

[shellyzsweet]

I don't know what mavericks intentions were in his post, but my comments below seem to agree with his, but my concerns are mostly about safety and specialization.....Mostly about safety of the officers. Its not meant to be offensive or rude in any way, so please don't take it as such. Its a simple request from a paramedic to a LEO for the next time they run into a situation like this

Originally Posted by MAVERICK



It not a good Idea to take the child to the hospital by squad car.

That decision is always a difficult one and should never be taken lightly. It must be made based on the individual circumstances. For you to issue a blanket statement is inappropriate

Yes its difficult, and yeah...its a kid, so ur amped up like CRAZY, and sometimes its hard to make a rational call when its a kid. But here's the rational.....sure, you got there and had the kid in the doc's arms by the time the ff's showed up at the house. Awesome! (I really do mean that BTW!!) Wheres the defibrilator?? Did the doc know you were comming?? -Most likely not. So now the ER is running around clearing a room and bed, grabbing the crash cart, continuing CPR, Where's the oxygen? What about an IV? -An ER quickly can become chaotic with a walk in arrest cause they aren't ready. Vs. the ff medic who walks in....his defibrilator is in his partners hands, his oxygen in his jump bag, his IV bag is seconds away from being prepared to be connected to his IV once he gets it, if it isn't already flushed and ready to go. The ff medic will have CPR going, defibrilate (which has been shown to be the most affective treatment for cardiac arrest to date.) giving oxygen, have an IV established quickly and is gonna give the same treatment as the doctor in the ER and probably initiate a higher level of care faster than the doctor can, plus he can maintain that care all the way to the hospital.

Plus when it comes to transporting the kid, he's gonna go in an ambulance, which has crash nets, and safety belts in the back for crew safety and a place to secure the child safely as well. Also more than likely the EMT or medic driving will have experience driving code 3 with unbelted passengers in the back and is used to it as a driver....its very challenging! And the medics and ff's in the back are also used to it, so they can work and do what they need to do all while driving code 3, in as safe a situation as possible.

My point isn't to sit here and say....well you should have waited for the hose monkeys to show up and run the code so they can justify their 100k piece of aparatus and they are better cause they are ff's and blah blah blah. My point is, it comes down to specialization. I don't want ff's responding to bank robberies and shootings to protect me....they don't have the tools or level of training that cops do. Same logic here. Its what they do, and yeah it worked out and you got to the hospital safe and the kid lived and thats awesome!! I get what an "oh ****" feeling you had! Especially the "whats taking the ff's and ambulance so long?? I could just throw them in the car and get the the hospital before they get here...I've been there! Its hard to say you did the wrong thing, cause you didn't and that kid lived, and its hard to say "no we are gonna wait for the ff's and medics" cause its a serious thing, I mean its A KID!!!

BUT!!!! (there's always a but)

At the end of the day you want to go home to your family, and you want your deputies to go home to theirs, so I hope you slow down and think about your safety and your deputies next time, cause I don't want anything to happen to you guys when your going code 3 to the hospital. Dealing with a pediatric code is hard enough, I don't want to deal with that and a LEO LODD caused by an MVA all on the same call.




My point is this: Blanket statements so not serve a useful purpose.

Safety first. Its a blanket statement and serves a VERY useful purpose.

[shellyzsweet]

Gezz you guys are overly sensitive. You would never make it in a firehouse.

well its a hard life....only having to run ALS calls for 5 minutes at a time, then playing with fire and throwing couches out windows in the name of safety, then going to the firehouse and cooking and sitting in your lazy boys and watching TV and working out, and sleeping.....don't forget the training of jaws of life, the constant ff tower training and all the other training you guys do too!!

.....yep I couldn't do it!!


I kid I kid!!!! Except that....I really couldn't do it!

[Samuelx]

Sure thing you are welcome. Do the police hear fire calls on their radio band? I am just curious, I would think they would at least be aware as if it's their beat, they should be informed, correct?

Like Ernie, we also do not share frequencies with Fire. Sometimes, we are dispatched to the same calls and we're notified that they are responding. Other times, we just happen to see/hear them (and AMR) rolling to something/somewhere. On those occasions, I'm usually able to identify where they're going and what they're going to but I have to take an extra step to request that info on my computer, it just doesn't pop up on my screen. The emergency call for medical response often comes through our dispatch/desk but we (black and whites) won't respond (or even know about it) if it's more of a "routine" medical help call - if/when I check that extra screen, I can usually see that a medical response call was received but that Fire is responding only...

[Samuelx]

Wrto the whole wait for Fire vs scoop and run thing - IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON FACTORS SUCH AS THE CIRCUMSTANCES/TYPE OF EMERGENCY, AVAILABLE RESOURCES, AND RESPONSE/TRANSPORTATION TIME - THERE IS NO "YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DO IT THIS WAY" ANSWER.

I've waited for Fire. I've scooped and rolled. I've transported to a location for a Life Flight pick up. I've scooped and rolled WITH Fire (including an instance when the fire/paramedic was giving CPR to a drowned toddler in the back seat of the patrol car as we were rolling). ETC. You don't think we are making arrangements (calling ahead to the hospital) as we're rolling? You don't think that we're making coordinated transportation arrangements (i.e. blocking intersection) as we're rolling? You don't think we know how to drive fast with someone else in the car (btw, a radio car handles much better than an engine, squad, or ambulance)?

E.g. Where I work, we don't have a Level I Trauma center anywhere close. Chances are we are going to wait for Fire for something requiring a trauma surgeon. Other places I've worked, we had a Level I Trauma center right in our area of service - in that case, there is a greater chance that I Wouldn't wait.

FWIW, in my immediate work areas, we have 4 Fire stations. We've got a good relationship with them and their (and AMR's) response times are usually excellent. One of my academy classmates left the dark side and joined up with them about a year or two after graduation and now works in my area - I'd have all the faith in the world for him to work on me.

[MAVERICK]

well its a hard life....only having to run ALS calls for 5 minutes at a time, then playing with fire and throwing couches out windows in the name of safety, then going to the firehouse and cooking and sitting in your lazy boys and watching TV and working out, and sleeping.....don't forget the training of jaws of life, the constant ff tower training and all the other training you guys do too!!

.....yep I couldn't do it!!


I kid I kid!!!! Except that....I really couldn't do it!

Leaves us plenty of time to critique what LEO was doing on our calls

[Super Spy]

My buddy is an LEO and I hear stories about all the BS he puts up with every time I see him. If he parks in a red zone so he can keep an eye on his car and cut down on a-holes peeing in the window, I don't blame him. (You learn to leave the windows up pretty quick) Once in a while someone is actually inconsiderate enough to have an emergency while he's on lunch, I don't think they are complaining too much that he got there a little bit faster.

[shellyzsweet]

Leaves us plenty of time to critique what LEO was doing on our calls

How's that saying go again? C3, 4, and 5,.....

[yzErnie]

It not a good Idea to take the child to the hospital by squad car. Most every FD in Ca run Paramedic engines there a life saving drugs that you don't have and the national response time on scene is 5 min. It is better to start CPR and wait for the the FD to get on scene so that they can tube and push drugs.

I don't dislike cops. I'm a Fire Captain/Peace Officer

With all due respect and without any inflection in my words. Are you serious? Our actions saved that babies life and if it happened again tonight we'd do the same thing. From the time the call came out it took 14 minutes for the FD to arrive. That, IMHO, is an unacceptable response time...especially since the FD is less than 2 miles from the location. We went we onscene 1 minute after the call was dispatched and then your idea is for us to give CPR on an infant for another 13 minutes? Ain't gonna happen on my watch.

We were at the hospital for 7 minutes before the FD even arrived onscene. The ER staff met us at the ambulance entrance and took immediate control of the baby. Had we waited for the FD to crawl out of their Strat-O-Loungers, get all dressed up and then roll into the scene we would have waited way to long.

You say you don't dislike cops however, your words indicate differently. But, that is ok. This is America and we can like or dislike whoever we wish and thankfully, here in America we are allowed to make those decisions without recourse.