LV Costco shooting of CCW holder

[cvc04]

If a person is confused by the verbal commands of LEO's, don't move, get down, turn around, ect., is it better to just stand there with your hands up and do nothing?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=320892

[Ron-Solo]

Yes. Hands held up high show you are trying to comply.

And don't let this turn into a LE bashing thread. Others have turned into such and have been removed. This incident is an old incident.

[cvc04]

Thanks

Yes. Hands held up high show you are trying to comply.

And don't let this turn into a LE bashing thread. Others have turned into such and have been removed. This incident is an old incident.

Thanks for your reply. I just had never thought about what I would do in that situation.

[9mmepiphany]

yes the safe thing to do is never reach for anything...like ID...they'll get around to it.

raising your empty hands and waiting for a single unified instruction is always the safest route to follow...don't try to explain anything until everyone has calmed down

[fullrearview]

Thanks for your reply. I just had never thought about what I would do in that situation.

Most people don't...Even off duty LEO's don't think about it. Just move extremely slow, and put your hands as high as you can get them! You may be there for a bit, but once someone realizes whats happening, they will calm everyone down.

Ideally, they should be planning on their way to the call.....Our dept. is really good at one guy giving orders.

[SID45]

I was target shooting at a blm land one time with my friend and one of the neighbors nearby called LE to report that there is guns fired in the area; this area was previously used as a range . Anyway, 2 swat members with AR 15's came over while i was shooting my socom and they were yelling from a about 25 yrds. As soon as i saw them i put down the rifle, i still had a loaded .45 in my hip and we raised our hands. They came over and did a background check after requesting our ID'S . Then they left . No problem whatsoever. They just said there was a complaint of people shooting , possibly its some "gangbangers" in the area.

[cmichini]

yes the safe thing to do is never reach for anything...like ID...they'll get around to it.

raising your empty hands and waiting for a single unified instruction is always the safest route to follow...don't try to explain anything until everyone has calmed down

^^ This.

Particularly continue to indicate a touchdown until everyone is 'calm' and things have gone from frantic shouting to rational talking.

Once everything is moving slow again, you should then have an opportunity to safely address whatever the hell is going on.

[Jonathan Doe]

In the thread about this shooting in other section of the forum, many members called it a murder. I wonder if they had all the facts to call it a murder. They said he was a model citizen type of guy, and never had a problem.

During my time on the streets, I came across many guys with guns, and fortunately, I never had to fire my pistol although I was very close to shooting it many times. I am glad with the fact that I don't have to live with a thoughts of "I killed someone".

When I receive a call of someone with a gun, I will do my best to protect me and others around me. I would not have any idea whether the person had a permit for the CCW or illegally carrying, a good guy or gangbanger. And, if he is a person doing OC with an empty magazine in the magazine well, he is not clear until I personally check him out. Yes, he has right to OC, but I wouldn't know if it was loaded or not. And, looks can be deceiving.

[9mmepiphany]

I am glad with the fact that I don't have to live with a thoughts of "I killed someone".

i don't know you, but i do know people who have expressed similar feelings because i used to ask them that question when they were my trainee. i always asked them to be really honest with themselves and answer the question of their ability to kill another human being without judgement

the time to find out isn't when you are faced with the situation. it isn't so much that you'll hesitate, it's more that you won't be prepared to react and try to compensate for it with speed of action

[Jonathan Doe]

i don't know you, but i do know people who have expressed similar feelings because i used to ask them that question when they were my trainee. i always asked them to be really honest with themselves and answer the question of their ability to kill another human being without judgement

the time to find out isn't when you are faced with the situation. it isn't so much that you'll hesitate, it's more that you won't be prepared to react and try to compensate for it with speed of action

I will not hesitate to shoot someone to protect myself and my partner or other people. I won't have a problem with it. Whether it was good shootng or a bad one, it will have an effect on one's life. I have been a CSI for 10 years. I have seen some other LEO's having trouble coping with it, even if it was a good shooting.

[yzErnie]

Some of the comments in the other thread are amazingly bias. So many people are making comments against the LEOs in such a negative light. When you try to inject some reasoning, as some of the LEOs here have done, they gang up on you and call you murders and whatnot. I find the comments humorous because most of those folks don't have a clue and the thread is just a sounding board for them. Too funny!!

When someone takes an action that is inherently lethal and causes you have to use a lethal action against them, they are the ones who have forced your hand. I have no regrets in either of my scenarios because I know I did everything I could to avoid them. Did I want them to end that way?..absolutely not.

If you are prepared both mentally and physically, the fallout is much easier to get through. Thankfully, I had some very good mentors during these times and their experience and guidance were priceless.

[9mmepiphany]

I have seen some other LEO's having trouble coping with it, even if it was a good shooting.

hopefully your department has a Peer Support Program. i highly recommend anyone involved in a Critical Incident to get involved in a De-Brief as soon as possible after a shoot.

having been involved with Peer Support for many years, i've found the folks with the worst problem to be the ones who were the least prepared for it to happen

[Ron-Solo]

I work for the same agency as Topgun7 and they have an excellent peer support section and extensive psychological services unit. Debriefing and a visit to the psych are mandatory before returning to duty.

I agree 100% about being mentally prepared before it happens.

[Steveo8]

I guess that I would have to ask is anybody ever mentally prepared.

[yzErnie]

I guess that I would have to ask is anybody ever mentally prepared.

Taking a human life is something that one never really wants to do. In this business, we must have a grasp of reality and understand the potential is there every day and for every incident we respond to or for every car we stop. We certainly have different personalities among our personnel and some, mostly those who have military experience, seem to be better prepared mentally for the aftermath of a lethal encounter.

While my encounters will forever be scorched into my brain, the trauma of them has faded somewhat with time. I know I was right in my actions and to me personally, that makes it easier to deal with. I use those experiences to help these youngsters prepare for that very same aftermath.