Where's the "enforcement" in Law Enforcement?

[Sideline Shooter]

...

[POLICESTATE]

Well at least a report was taken, that will carry some weight with the judge when he goes back to court. Actually your buddy should hope for continued bad behavior on her part, it will make it easier to get full custody at some point in the future.

He should also note down any behavior this lady does that might help in this case as well. Does she like to drink? A lot? Around the child? Drugs? Marijuana? Posters glorifying stuff like that? Lots of different boyfriends, or boyfriend(s) who do drugs or drink a lot? Keep records, dates, times, names etc... He also shouldn't say anything to her about this.

The goal is full custody unless she starts complying with the court orders on her own volition. Also no threats of court action should ever be made against her, he just needs to contact his lawyer as necessary and take action.

She's not going to like getting dragged into court and having to pay for lawyer fees because SHE refused to comply with a judge's order, most judges don't like that kind of stuff, even if she is the mother.

[Sideline Shooter]

000

[fullrearview]

Thats odd to me.....A court order is a court order. If she doesn't like it, get full custody!

Lawyers suck! (except for our CGN lawyers!)

[Ron-Solo]

There are too many variables in this situation to come to a conclusion. Oftentimes, there is a problem with the wording in the custody orders, but I'd just be guessing on that.

Getting the supervisor involved was the right move. Getting lawyers involved is the next move. Good luck to your friend.

[RangemasterP226]

If it was a valid court order with clear instructions, then the officers should have enforced it....... I can't look at the order, so I don't know.

It is a PITA that people that screw up their lives expect the police to fix them, (sometimes on a weekly basis) such as your buddy and his ex.

[Ron-Solo]

If it was a valid court order with clear instructions, then the officers should have enforced it....... I can't look at the order, so I don't know.

It is a PITA that people that screw up their lives expect the police to fix them, (sometimes on a weekly basis) such as your buddy and his ex.

I agree totally. Without being able to look at the order and the instructions writen on it, it is difficult to determine if it is valid. Many times there are conflicting instructions, or multiple orders that conflict with each other.

Your friend needs the advice of the best lawyer he can afford. Family law cases are very complex.

[nick]

I agree totally. Without being able to look at the order and the instructions writen on it, it is difficult to determine if it is valid. Many times there are conflicting instructions, or multiple orders that conflict with each other.

Your friend needs the advice of the best lawyer he can afford. Family law cases are very complex.

There're cases that family lawyers won't touch with a 10-ft pole; hopefully that one's not one of them.

[43Duc]

We typically consider family court orders to be civil matters and we try not to get involved in them beyond keeping the peace. We would likely not take the child from the mother either, however.... we would provide the father with a "Violation of Court Order" report that he can fill out and submit to the court in hopes that the court will find her in contempt. If not, it's just more ammo for the father to take to court to show documented violations. We usually don't fill out the report, but we will file it for them.

Now, if there are allegations of abuse, then there are other reports and notifications made, however those tend to be tit-for-tat situations. It's frustrating as a LEO to see good fathers get screwed by vindictive mothers.

[Sideline Shooter]

000

[BigDogatPlay]

Okay lets change the scenario to the question he asked me. If she is outside with the child and he calls the police, he just walks up and takes the child with him. Obviously the Ex is going to throw a fit, isn't the police suppossed to "keep the peace" and let him drive away with his child?

I wouldn't even begin to get into that hypothetical on a discussion board. That scenario is a box full of dynamite looking for a place to go off.

[9mmepiphany]

a child custody order, in Sacto Co, is a civil order...which is very different than an order from a Criminal Court. i'm not a lawyer, but i worked in the Family Court system for a number of years and have a better understanding than many...but it's not legal advice

our department had the same standing order as it seems the OP's frineds department had. we will try to facilitate custody exchange, but we won't force it and we don't make arrest based on a custody orders. we will take a report, which the aggrieved party can then attach to a contempt complaint, in Family Court to ask for relief...like failure to pay child support.

the only time we would take a child is if the child is in immediate danger or if the parent in current possession of the child is arrestable for another reason...arrest warrant. there are a lot of reasons for this such as conflicting court orders, Ex Parte orders, orders which were never transcribed into a Summary and Findings, orders that were never filed or served and lack of Proof of Service

a history of failure to facilitate visitation could be a basis for a claim of alienation and a motion to return to mediation and a change of custody.

if your friend doesn't already have lawyer who specializes in Family Law, he's really hurting his own case. the claim of not being able to afford a lawyer is either a false claim or a false savings if the welfare of your child was really at stake

[9mmepiphany]

I wouldn't even begin to get into that hypothetical on a discussion board. That scenario is a box full of dynamite looking for a place to go off.

i would never touch that hypothetical either...have him get a lawyer and work through the system

[SVT-40]

Officers will not get physical to enforce child custody orders when the parties will not abide by the rules of the order.

It's not the job of Law Enforcement to make sure two parents act like adults. It's the responsibility of the courts to "punish" parties who violate their own agreements.

The officers role at these type of calls is to "keep the peace" and then document possible violations of these orders.

Don't get your hopes up that just because a report was taken that the DA's office will file the case. Rarely is there any type of filing unless there is a pattern of REPEATED and SIGNIFICANT violations of the order.

Being a few minutes late or missing a drop off due to some kind of an emergency are not violations.


Remember these are civil orders and are basically "contempt of court".

The remedy is a report for 166.4 PC

166. (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b), (c), and (d),
every person guilty of any contempt of court, of any of the following
kinds, is guilty of a misdemeanor:
(1) Disorderly, contemptuous, or insolent behavior committed
during the sitting of any court of justice, in the immediate view and
presence of the court, and directly tending to interrupt its
proceedings or to impair the respect due to its authority.
(2) Behavior as specified in paragraph (1) committed in the
presence of any referee, while actually engaged in any trial or
hearing, pursuant to the order of any court, or in the presence of
any jury while actually sitting for the trial of a cause, or upon any
inquest or other proceedings authorized by law.
(3) Any breach of the peace, noise, or other disturbance directly
tending to interrupt the proceedings of any court.
(4) Willful disobedience of the terms as written of any process or
court order or out-of-state court order, lawfully issued by any
court, including orders pending trial.

Okay lets change the scenario to the question he asked me. If she is outside with the child and he calls the police, he just walks up and takes the child with him. Obviously the Ex is going to throw a fit, isn't the police suppossed to "keep the peace" and let him drive away with his child?

Keep the peace does not mean physically removing the child from it's mother or father. LEO's will try and talk both parties into obeying the terms of the order. But in the end it's up to the parties to act like respectable adults.


If anyone uses physical force to remove the child from the grasp of the other parent he or she may be committing a battery. They could also put themselves in the position of violate child endangerment laws.

A "tug of war" over a child using the child as the rope is a recipe for disaster.

[yzErnie]

I don't know what county this happened in but the magistrates in my county encourage the "Status Quo" and to advise the combatants to get back to court to get it all handled.

To ask us here to comment on the decisions that were made at the scene and at a later time are not going to be possible. We are hearing a 3rd party version of what happened and cannot talk to your friend, his ex or to see how the court order reads. For you to ask us to make a conclusion about what the officers did that evening is pointless.