armed security and parking question

[stormy_clothing]

So I live in Rancho and although it's pretty mellow vehicle theft and keying still happens so it's common to see bikes parked up on the sidewalk out of the way of traffic but still visible. Most things seem to be owned by Lewis operating corp and I've never seen any issues with this.

So tonight my mom asks me to meet her for pizza and I happen to have my bike so when I roll up the lots full but theres a nook where people park normal bikes and all kinds of stuff thats empty so I park there knowing I may need to move it perhaps, but there isn't any kind of sign-age and I've not disturbing foot traffic anyway.

So we are finishing up dinner when I see a white car screech up at the red curb and a guy run out and start crowding my bike, kinda thought he may be try to steal it for a sec.

So I go out to leave and I see this dude, a tall skin head white guy with a mustache in full black tac gear with a serpa drop leg holster (oh the hammer was cocked - is that even legal?) with some kind of shiny badge of some sort - honestly I immediately thought (air softer) tried not to chuckle actually. He was cool and I was leaving.

Still though it made me wonder, is there actually a law that says I can't park on the sidewalk if there is no signs?

Does he have any real authority to do more than notify the authorities ?

And I'm assuming he's acting as an agent for the property management but what if I felt he was being unsafe by carrying a cocked and loaded side arm is it a citizen vs citizen thing where I could detain him.

Not really a big deal just wondering, certainly not trying to give anyone a hard time just more curious about it.

[Adehtla]

CVC 22500(f) tells us:

22500. No person shall stop, park, or leave standing any vehicle whether attended or unattended, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a peace officer or official traffic control device, in any of the following places:
...
(f) On any portion of a sidewalk, or with the body of the vehicle extending over any portion of a sidewalk, except electric carts when authorized by local ordinance, as specified in Section 21114.5. Lights, mirrors, or devices that are required to be mounted upon a vehicle under this code may extend from the body of the vehicle over the sidewalk to a distance of not more than 10 inches.

[Adehtla]

I didn't answer your last question of "Does he have any real authority to do more than notify the authorities?" If it's private property he can have it towed/removed.

[Cpl. Haas]

...if I felt he was being unsafe by carrying a cocked and loaded side arm is it a citizen vs citizen thing where I could detain him.

#1, you have no legal authority to detain anyone... only peace officers and loss prevention have that right. Your only option is to make a private person's arrest...

Having said that... #2, what would you be arresting the guy for?

As far as authority, he could have the bike towed under CVC 22651... though a peace officer is required to remove it if the vehicle is occupied. I once saw an LA area tow truck driver simply knocked the rider back off the bike... therefore rendering it "unoccupied" again.

[Cokebottle]

(oh the hammer was cocked - is that even legal?)
And I'm assuming he's acting as an agent for the property management but what if I felt he was being unsafe by carrying a cocked and loaded side arm is it a citizen vs citizen thing where I could detain him.

If he is authorized to carry while performing his job, then no, there's nothing we can do.
The 1911 was designed to be carried with the hammer cocked (and the safety on).
Was this a semi-auto or a revolver? Hammer cocked on a revolver, I'd agree that it's unsafe... but illegal? No.

[CSDGuy]

#1, you have no legal authority to detain anyone... only peace officers and loss prevention (under the Merchant Rule) have that right. Your only option is to make a private person's arrest...

Having said that... #2, what would you be arresting the guy for?

As far as authority, he could have the bike towed under CVC 22651... though a peace officer is required to remove it if the vehicle is occupied. I once saw an LA area tow truck driver simply knocked the rider back off the bike... therefore rendering it "unoccupied" again. (He was committing battery? Under what authority?)

Cocked and Locked is not an illegal mode of carrying a firearm as long as the person carrying it has legal right to do so. I can C&L open carry my loaded 1911 in areas of Sacramento County where discharge is legal... without any permit or license whatsoever. Armed Security Guards, when on-duty, with a valid firearms permit, may carry cocked & locked too. If I had a CCW, you'd better believe that I'd be carrying a 1911 C&L...

For the OP: Like Cpl. Haas said... what would you be arresting the guy for? Felony (you have reasonable suspicion that he did) what? Misdemeanor (that you witnessed) what?

[stormy_clothing]

It was a Beretta 9mm and being DA I can't see the need to carry it cocked during a roaming patrol of a nice area honestly though.

I wasn't planning on arresting him, but honestly driving around with a c/l Beretta in a drop leg holster that wasn't secured properly by the looks of it seemed like it was getting into an area of possible concern. And then what options would you have if it had gone further say fallen out of the holster, holster fell on the ground that kinda thing.

Basically at the point you felt he was behaving in a legitimately dangerous manner what would your options be. I am assuming yes he has the right to carry a firearm on duty.

[CaptMike]

It could have been a taurus beretta clone. Some of the older ones were single action only, so it was carried cocked and locked. He may have been carrying it correctly. I would tend to believe it was a Taurus because security folks don't make much and they usually carry what they can afford.

[B.D.Dubloon]

Basically at the point you felt he was behaving in a legitimately dangerous manner what would your options be. I am assuming yes he has the right to carry a firearm on duty.

"The point you felt he was behaving in a legitimately dangerous manner" was not a point at which any rational person would agree with you. If for some reason you were completely unable to mind your own business and go on your way, you could complain to the company he works for and/or the company that owns the building he was guarding. Maybe you could call the cops, but I don't know what they would do.

Do you not think people should be able to LOC?

[CSDGuy]

It was a Beretta 9mm and being DA I can't see the need to carry it cocked during a roaming patrol of a nice area honestly though.

I wasn't planning on arresting him, but honestly driving around with a c/l Beretta in a drop leg holster that wasn't secured properly by the looks of it seemed like it was getting into an area of possible concern. And then what options would you have if it had gone further say fallen out of the holster, holster fell on the ground that kinda thing.

Basically at the point you felt he was behaving in a legitimately dangerous manner what would your options be. I am assuming yes he has the right to carry a firearm on duty.

YOUR options are quite limited. I suspect that LE's options would be limited as well, unless there was an AD/ND event...

Basically, you can complain to the guard's employer, to whomever contracts with the security company for services, or to the BSIS. That's about the limit of your options. You have no power/right to detain. There's no crime being committed that I can see...

[Cokebottle]

I wasn't planning on arresting him, but honestly driving around with a c/l Beretta in a drop leg holster that wasn't secured properly by the looks of it seemed like it was getting into an area of possible concern. And then what options would you have if it had gone further say fallen out of the holster, holster fell on the ground that kinda thing.

Basically at the point you felt he was behaving in a legitimately dangerous manner what would your options be. I am assuming yes he has the right to carry a firearm on duty.

"Dangerous" being a matter of personal opinion, as long as no laws are violated, your only option is to confront him (not likely to going to be productive) or have a talk with his manager.

[9mmepiphany]

honestly driving around with a c/l Beretta in a drop leg holster that wasn't secured properly by the looks of it seemed like it was getting into an area of possible concern. And then what options would you have if it had gone further say fallen out of the holster, holster fell on the ground that kinda thing.

i'm not quite sure how you get from identifying the holster as a Serpa and than transitioning to "wasn't secured properly" being inserted into a Serpa holster is properly secured.

i think your options in that situation would have been to remove yourself from the area

[Gryff]

#1, you have no legal authority to detain anyone... only peace officers and loss prevention have that right. Your only option is to make a private person's arrest...

Actually, that's not correct. Peace Officers (not sworn LEOs) only have powers of arrest when they are on the job. Loss Prevention Officers are not Peace Officers of any sort, so they never have an LEO's power of arrest.

Basically off-duty peace officers and loss prevention officers only have the same power of arrest that you do as a private citizen.

[CaptMike]

Hello gryff
partially correct. Peace officers under 830.1 and 830.2 have authority 24/7. Other officers such as park police or DOJ investigators have authority only on duty. That is unless they are deputized under the two codes I mentioned.

[BigDogatPlay]

All of the peace officer authority sections in the Penal Code describe where the authority of that peace officer extends. Some are limited, others are 24/7 anywhere in the state. DoJ investigators, mentioned above as example, are 830.1(b) peace officers....

(b) The Attorney General and special agents and investigators of
the Department of Justice are peace officers, and those assistant
chiefs, deputy chiefs, chiefs, deputy directors, and division
directors designated as peace officers by the Attorney General are
peace officers. The authority of these peace officers extends to any
place in the state where a public offense has been committed or where
there is probable cause to believe one has been committed.

Interesting that the Attorney General him/herself is a peace officer. I wonder if JB is strapped.