Right to sell?

[habendanio]

I have a relative (sister) that owes me a substantial amount of money. She had me hold onto her guns as collateral for a loan and because she does not have a safe where she now stays. She was storing them in her trunk! I'd like to get reimbursed somehow, do I have the right to sell her guns since I now posses them or do I have to make her sell them. She apparently does not have the money to pay me back and would like to keep her guns, and she has nothing else of value.

[Cokebottle]

On day-31, her "lending" you the guns became an illegal transfer. It was illegal the moment she/you walked out the door if handguns were included and you do not have a valid HSC.

And no, you do not have the right to sell ANY personal property belonging to anyone without their permission in an attempt to recover a debt... especially not guns.

[CenterX]

Nope it isn't your property.
If you agree to hold property for someone it goes on until they die and the family writes you a note that they do not want it also. If it gets stolen you had better file a police report.

Ask her to sign them over to you in a written agreement as payment for the loan. But you must then Dross them.
Then you can sell them.

Plus what cokebottle said!

Good luck!

[habendanio]

Should I do her a favor and buy locks for all her guns, then give them back to her without the keys. Before she put them in my safe she had them at her old boyfriends place. I don't want to brake any laws, this whole situation sucks.

[Unit74]

Take the non serialized part away, i,e. the slide/cylinder/bolts/internals for collateral. Then give back the receivers.

[maxwellca21]

Take the non serialized part away, i,e. the slide/cylinder/bolts/internals for collateral. Then give back the receivers.

good idea! give back all reciever...then take pictures of all the sellable parts and post it on here for cheap/fast sell.

[zinfull]

If she was my sister I would not have a problem storing the guns for her. It is better than leaving with old boyfriends. Just have her show up every 30 days and take the guns back then re loan them to you. Please keep them safe.

jerry

[HokeySon]

I assume that you have no written agreement that gives you a security interest in the guns. If that is correct, and she will not transfer the guns to you to satisfy the debt, you can sue on the debt (in small claims court if the amount is within the limits). Get a judgment, go to the sherrif and get a writ of execution on the guns, the sherrif will process the paper work and the guns can then be legally yours and their value credited against the debt owed.

PS: Family transactions are always problematic because people want them to be informal, then they want them to be legal. Cannot be both.

[retired]

Unit74, from what I recall from the old days, that would be similar to a landlord holding a person's property hostage until they pay any rent due, which of course is illegal (at least it was when I was in the field).

Since he doesn't own the firearms, unless I'm incorrect and things have changed, he cannot remove and keep parts from the firearms until she pays him the money she owes. That would be holding the parts as hostage as in the example above.

I believe the best idea, if he wishes to go to that extent, would be what HokeySon suggested. Doing that tho, might tear any relationship apart, but that is something he will have to decide.

you do not have the right to sell ANY personal property belonging to anyone without their permission in an attempt to recover a debt.

Cokebottle, that is an incorrect statement. In some instances, personal property can be sold without the permission of the owner. An example would be what probably happens everyday across this country when property in storage facilities are auctioned off to pay the debt of the storage fees.

If the renter of the storage garage hasn't paid his rental fee for whatever the legal period is and the owner or his representative completes whatever legal processes are required, the property can be sold off to satisfy a debt. The owner's permission is not required.

In this instance, if he does what HokeySon said, he could be awarded all or some of the firearms to meet the debt. Obviously, the value of the firearms would have to be determined by an appraisal.

Now, having said this, firearms may come under some special dispensation of their own because of their nature and this process (small claims) may not apply to them. I would recommend he contact an atty. to determine if it is possible to be awarded the firearms if he meets all legal requirements.

[Cokebottle]

Cokebottle, that is an incorrect statement. In some instances, personal property can be sold without the permission of the owner. An example would be what probably happens everyday across this country when property in storage facilities are auctioned off to pay the debt of the storage fees.

Isn't that in the fine print in the rental agreement, therefore, permission is granted when the item is moved into the unit?

Maybe "any" was too strong of a word, but in general, for Joe Schmoe without a written agreement, it would be true without a court order.

[Unit74]

Unit74, from what I recall from the old days, that would be similar to a landlord holding a person's property hostage until they pay any rent due, which of course is illegal (at least it was when I was in the field).

She gave them as collateral. He can keep whatever he wants. It was a verbal contract and 100% legal. Landlord-tenant laws are on the books. Personal loans have no rules.


I see nothing wrong with holding on to the parts till the debt is paid. Give back the receivers to trump the transfers laws.