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Hello all.
I'm sorry if this is a topic that has been covered already. I did a search but couldn't find really anything definitive.
I was hoping to get LEO's opinions on transporting a firearm with loaded magazines near but not attached to the firearm. I'm really confused on the law regarding this, and from all my research, it seems like others are equally confused as well. I'm sure the best way to go about it is to transport with everything unloaded this way there is no way to misinterpret, but I would like to see if I can't get any clearer information.
Background on why I'm asking...I usually keep an XD-9 at home for defense, unloaded, but with a loaded magazine or two nearby. Recently when I go to the range, I put the XD-9 in a lockable pelican case (with 4 locks to be safe) and I put the loaded magazines in my ammo canister with the rest of my loose rounds. My past couple times to the range (two different ranges), the employees there practically looked at me if I was committing a felony. One asked me if I was LE. The other just went on a rant about how it's illegal to keep magazines loaded when you travel. And BOTH went as far as to say that a loaded magazine BY ITSELF was considered a loaded weapon. They backed it up by saying that if I were to have only the loaded magazine in the car AND NO FIREARM, I could still be arrested for a loaded weapon. They cited "friends at the DOJ" and so forth for giving them this information, and whenever I tried to explain my research, they would just laugh and basically say "hey, it's your life you're playing with". So I've since then stopped keeping my magazine's loaded when I travel, but I'm still curious to the legality, and to LE's interpretation and what they would do if they found someone with a say an unloaded handgun in a locked container, and a loaded magazine in a separate container.
I have three pieces of documentation I want to cite here to show why I'm confused. The first is the current penal code, 12031:
CA PC 12031 section (g):
"(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder."
Next is from the People v Clark court decision:
People v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53
Cal.Rptr.2d 99
Given the examples are all consistent with an intent to use the common meaning of "loaded," it follows the Legislature's use of the phrase "attached in any manner" to the firearm was intended to encompass a situation where a shell or cartridge might be attached to a firearm or "loaded" for firing by some unconventional method. The phrase does not demonstrate a clear Legislative intent to deem a firearm loaded no matter how a shell is attached to a firearm; in particular, it does not indicate a clear intent to deem a gun "loaded" when the ammunition, as here, is in a storage compartment which is not equivalent to either a magazine or clip and from which the ammunition cannot be fired.
And finally, from Calgun's own information:
How do I legally transport a handgun?
The easiest (but not the only) method to legally transport a handgun is
* unloaded
* in a secure locked case
Can I have ammunition in the same case and compartment as the gun?
Yes.
Can my magazines for semiautomatic handguns have ammunition in them?
Yes.
How to legally transport a handgun
Ok, that's my rant. Sorry for the length, but if any LE's have any opinions on this, please help me out. Also, please note that this summer I will be trying to apply as a reserve for a dept. around Los Angeles, so I'm hoping to use this information as a learning tool as well.
Thank you.
I'm sorry if this is a topic that has been covered already. I did a search but couldn't find really anything definitive.
I was hoping to get LEO's opinions on transporting a firearm with loaded magazines near but not attached to the firearm. I'm really confused on the law regarding this, and from all my research, it seems like others are equally confused as well. I'm sure the best way to go about it is to transport with everything unloaded this way there is no way to misinterpret, but I would like to see if I can't get any clearer information.
Background on why I'm asking...I usually keep an XD-9 at home for defense, unloaded, but with a loaded magazine or two nearby. Recently when I go to the range, I put the XD-9 in a lockable pelican case (with 4 locks to be safe) and I put the loaded magazines in my ammo canister with the rest of my loose rounds. My past couple times to the range (two different ranges), the employees there practically looked at me if I was committing a felony. One asked me if I was LE. The other just went on a rant about how it's illegal to keep magazines loaded when you travel. And BOTH went as far as to say that a loaded magazine BY ITSELF was considered a loaded weapon. They backed it up by saying that if I were to have only the loaded magazine in the car AND NO FIREARM, I could still be arrested for a loaded weapon. They cited "friends at the DOJ" and so forth for giving them this information, and whenever I tried to explain my research, they would just laugh and basically say "hey, it's your life you're playing with". So I've since then stopped keeping my magazine's loaded when I travel, but I'm still curious to the legality, and to LE's interpretation and what they would do if they found someone with a say an unloaded handgun in a locked container, and a loaded magazine in a separate container.
I have three pieces of documentation I want to cite here to show why I'm confused. The first is the current penal code, 12031:
CA PC 12031 section (g):
"(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder."
Next is from the People v Clark court decision:
People v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53
Cal.Rptr.2d 99
Given the examples are all consistent with an intent to use the common meaning of "loaded," it follows the Legislature's use of the phrase "attached in any manner" to the firearm was intended to encompass a situation where a shell or cartridge might be attached to a firearm or "loaded" for firing by some unconventional method. The phrase does not demonstrate a clear Legislative intent to deem a firearm loaded no matter how a shell is attached to a firearm; in particular, it does not indicate a clear intent to deem a gun "loaded" when the ammunition, as here, is in a storage compartment which is not equivalent to either a magazine or clip and from which the ammunition cannot be fired.
And finally, from Calgun's own information:
How do I legally transport a handgun?
The easiest (but not the only) method to legally transport a handgun is
* unloaded
* in a secure locked case
Can I have ammunition in the same case and compartment as the gun?
Yes.
Can my magazines for semiautomatic handguns have ammunition in them?
Yes.
How to legally transport a handgun
Ok, that's my rant. Sorry for the length, but if any LE's have any opinions on this, please help me out. Also, please note that this summer I will be trying to apply as a reserve for a dept. around Los Angeles, so I'm hoping to use this information as a learning tool as well.
Thank you.
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