The police circle

[MAGSLUG]

Hi guys,
I just wondered what the LEOs on here think. Or any one else that has had a similar experience. Sorry if its a bit long =P
-I am considering LE as a career and worked for a Sheriff's office in the bay area this summer, as part of an LE internship program. It was the main office in the county court house. I was there for three months and mostly had a great time. The problem was though, even though I had daily personal contact with deputies, I always felt like just some guy off the street that had just walked in. Being a civilian I was only required to dress semi-formal. I did have a fair sized ID around my neck every where I went that said SHERIFF across it. Almost every time I was in a situation by my self with a cop/s (like in the elevator) it was like I was just an invisible almost criminal type, like we weren't on the team team if you get me? I knew all the people that mattered in the administration, the Sheriff, Under Sheriff Cpt. Lts. but never got to really hit it off with any regular deputies. So I went to the uniform store an bought a black polo shirt with the Sheriff star logo on it, the same as some of the detectives in the training unit get to wear, but it still did not work. It seemed to me as if one is not a uniformed officer, with a gun, you don't get to be in the circle? I really wanted to get the inside scoop from the guys at ground level, but they(not all) seemed to like ignore every one else.
-BTW I was working for the Professional Standards Bureau for most of the time but not ALL of them could have known that!

[Big D]

That's the way it is sometimes. Unless you're wearing the same uniform as them you're not going to be able to relate to them on the same level. Don't feel bad, just understand that these are guys that have common shared experiences. My advice to you is to express to them your interest in the job and to ask them for advice and help. DON'T try to act like one of them by buying a shirt and passing yourself off as a deputy. Working in an agency before you become a LEO can be a double edged sword. It is an opportunity to show your work ethic and get a good reputation. Or it can be the exact opposite and you can get yourself blacklisted. Good luck

[Cokebottle]

DON'T try to act like one of them by buying a shirt and passing yourself off as a deputy.

This

I'm not a LEO, but I've been involved with several groups that were very "tight", and known many people from many professional and nonprofessional organizations who feel/observe the same thing.

As a civilian, you have not busted your a** through the academy, boot camp, initiation, or whatever the rite of passage may be. "Stepping in" as if you belong with out paying your dues is generally seen as a sign of disrespect to those who have earned the right to be called "Deputy", "Marine", or even "Frat brother".
These organizations are a "circle"... and everyone inside the circle trusts the others with their lives every day. On the battlefield or on the street.
You get inside the circle by paying your dues and proving your loyalty. It can't be bought... it must be earned.

As BigD said... buying a shirt and hoping to gain acceptance that way will only get you branded as a "poser".
Take off the shirt, and accept the fact that you are a civilian earning your way into the circle.

[yzErnie]

-BTW I was working for the Professional Standards Bureau for most of the time but not ALL of them could have known that!

That right there tells me evrything I need to evaluate your scenario. Word travels like wild fire and I'll bet just about everyone knew where you were working. Don't take it personally, even when their peers get assigned to Professional Standards (Internal Affairs) the wall between friends gets pretty thick.

[MAGSLUG]

DON'T try to act like one of them by buying a shirt and passing yourself off as a deputy. Working in an agency before you become a LEO can be a double edged sword.

I get what you are saying but anyone inside the department would obviously know that I was not a sworn officer. Other civilians could wear those shirts too, property unit for example. My thinking was they would know that I didn't work for some other county branch like the courts or DAs office. I wasn't expecting them to invite me out for a bear will all the guys, just give more acknowledgement that we were both working for the same boss. I went on ridealongs and that was fine, one gets to learn a lot about policing that way but around the building, or out to lunch..nothing not even a nod or hello.

[Cokebottle]

Other civilians could wear those shirts too

Joe Average can go to the mil surp store and buy a full set of BDU's, then go online or hit the thrift stores and buy enough medals to make Patton jealous.
A civilian can go to a uniform supply store and come pretty close to duplicating any LE uniform shy of the patch and badge... and badges, real and fake, are readily available.

Could <> should

[MAGSLUG]

I should add that the detectives in investigations would nod or say hello along with the rare case of seeing a CO. This is just the uniformed officers assigned to patrol and transport. Not even a blink.. I really thought at the time it is part of the "every guy is a bad guy" syndrome.

[MAGSLUG]

Joe Average

Oh believe me they gave me all the patches and badges while I worked there to say thank you but...Average Joe couldn't walk around in the places I could with out being shot. Average Joe didn't have authorization to handle police personnel files and view there content. So please don't think civilians that work in those places are just Average Joes.

[Cokebottle]

Of course not, but my point was that just because you can do something to try to fit in doesn't mean you should.

All you can do is do your job and be friendly. Don't worry about trying to be "one of them". Internships are rough, and depending on the process, the respect often isn't there from others.

When I was in aerospace, they had the "CAP" program for college students. It was basically an internship program where the company took a promising student under their wing and put them into a 2-year program.
They would spend 90 days in a department, then move on to another department. At graduation, they were given a job in one of the departments they had worked in.
We called them "90-day wonders". They didn't know their a** from a hole in the ground, they didn't know the people in the department, and they really didn't know the job, because during their internship, instead of learning management, the managers just had them doing charts and graphs... they were free labor.
But because they had spent 2 years with the company, they felt that the employees owed them the same respect as a manager who had spent 5 years in one department working up.
Very few of these CAP graduates stayed with the company more than 6 months, and most of those who did accepted demotions to coordinator positions (where they actually would learn something).

[MAGSLUG]

Thats the thing though, the other guy intern that I worked with impressed the hell out of all the administrative people we worked for, we busted are asses and they want us back next year. Down stairs in patrol, it was just always a hostile vibe like "what are you doing in here" even though I'm doing **** for them kinda thing.

[retired]

I'm curious about your statement re the Scott Peterson file. Did you read it because it related in some way to your job or did you read it out of curiosity. I'm not accusing, merely asking.

[eltee]

Cops tend to be a "circle-the-wagons" bunch, they also jealousy protect their (real and imagined) sovereignty...even among their peers. You can be in the same agency, in the same attire (plainclothes or uniformed) and in the same classification (officer, agent, special investigator, etc.) but if you are not in their "unit" and you show up at their facility you will be eyed with suspicion. I used to get the fisheyes whenever I showed up at another unit, detail, station, etc. and I'm sure my peeps and I did the same to some degree when coppers came to our unit. Don't take it personally, cops have their little fraternities and treat any non-frat brother with "outsider" disdain (to varying levels and degrees).

It can get worse if you are in one agency and are on business at another. Each PD and SO has a level of the, "If you ain't **PD, you ain't $**t!" attitude towards outsiders. Sure, superficially they show courtesy, professionalism and blue brotherhood respect, but don't expect to be made to feel too comfy or to be left alone. Touch a coffee cup and a fight may ensue.

It wasn't you, it was the glass wall that some groups of people, like cops, often put between themselves and others.

[Cokebottle]

"If you ain't **PD, you ain't $**t!" attitude

I like to turn that around on Harley owners that give me a ration about my metric (and it's generally the RUBs who have a 5 year old bike with 500 miles on it).
"Oh... so if it is a Harley it is $**t?"

[9mmepiphany]

Thats the thing though, the other guy intern that I worked with impressed the hell out of all the administrative people we worked for, we busted are asses and they want us back next year. Down stairs in patrol, it was just always a hostile vibe like "what are you doing in here" even though I'm doing **** for them kinda thing

what we used to call "working of the 4th floor" with the Chiefs and Admin, is usually the kiss of death for being accepted by the "line troops"

why would someone tell you something which might be repeated to admin...out of context...and result in "merde" rolling downhill.

you've never earned the "trust" of the troops...as a matter of fact, i could understand if they see you as already having one foot on their shoulders

[bubbagump]

I wore the same uniform as they did. Drove the same cars. Backed them up like they backed me up. I would even drive by other agencies when they pulled traffic in our city to see if they needed anything.

It depended on the officer. Some of them were too cool for you. Others treated you like a fellow officer. It seemed like the older guys were cool with us. They would BS with us, back us up, etc. Most of the younger guys acted like you were invisible, unless you proved to be useful. The Narco & Gang guys were always cool to hang out with. I never got a "Too Cool For You" vibe from them.