PC 537e(a) Question

[Kicker0429]

Would you arrest someone who has applied tape over their handgun serial number(s) absent any probable cause that the handgun has been stolen? I am referring to 12031e checks, for example.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

what the heck?

[1911su16b870]

I think the OP's question is "would a LEO arrest someone who had taped over their firearm's s/n per PC12090/12091?", which can be charged as a felony.

[Kicker0429]

I think the OP's question is "would a LEO arrest someone who had taped over their firearm's s/n per PC12090/12091?", which can be charged as a felony.

Actually, covering handgun serial numbers does not violate 12090 because the number is not "change(d), alter(ed), remove(d) or obliterate(d)".

[SJgunguy24]

I think the OP was referring to http://www.opencarryradio.com/docume..._18_Sep_09.pdf

[Jonathan Doe]

What is the purpose of covering the serial number with the tape in the first place?

[6172crew]

What is the purpose of covering the serial number with the tape in the first place?

I think he is referring to a memo which the LEO chief was talking about running numbers during a UOC stop. I think its chaffing the UOC group (the running of the numbers that is).

[Fire in the Hole]

Actually, covering handgun serial numbers does not violate 12090 because the number is not "change(d), alter(ed), remove(d) or obliterate(d)".

However "covering" is one of the key elements of section 537(e) P.C.

I wouldn't get excited about a piece of black electrical tape over a serial number. I'd probably just peel it off and eat it.

[ke6guj]

537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes
of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property
from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number,
electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or
identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or
destroyed, is guilty of a public offense, punishable as follows:
(1) If the value of the property does not exceed four hundred
dollars ($400), by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six
months.
(2) If the value of the property exceeds four hundred dollars
($400), by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(3) If the property is an integrated computer chip or panel of a
value of four hundred dollars ($400) or more, by imprisonment in the
state prison for 16 months, or 2 or 3 years or by imprisonment in a
county jail not exceeding one year.
For purposes of this subdivision, "personal property" includes,
but is not limited to, the following:
(1) Any television, radio, recorder, phonograph, telephone, piano,
or any other musical instrument or sound equipment.
(2) Any washing machine, sewing machine, vacuum cleaner, or other
household appliance or furnishings.
(3) Any typewriter, adding machine, dictaphone, or any other
office equipment or furnishings.
(4) Any computer, printed circuit, integrated chip or panel, or
other part of a computer.
(5) Any tool or similar device, including any technical or
scientific equipment.
(6) Any bicycle, exercise equipment, or any other entertainment or
recreational equipment.
(7) Any electrical or mechanical equipment, contrivance, material,
or piece of apparatus or equipment.
(8) Any clock, watch, watch case, or watch movement.
(9) Any vehicle or vessel, or any component part thereof.
(b) When property described in subdivision (a) comes into the
custody of a peace officer it shall become subject to the provision
of Chapter 12 (commencing with Section 1407) of Title 10 of Part 2,
relating to the disposal of stolen or embezzled property. Property
subject to this section shall be considered stolen or embezzled
property for the purposes of that chapter, and prior to being
disposed of, shall have an identification mark imbedded or engraved
in, or permanently affixed to it.
(c) This section does not apply to those cases or instances where
any of the changes or alterations enumerated in subdivision (a) have
been customarily made or done as an established practice in the
ordinary and regular conduct of business, by the original
manufacturer, or by his or her duly appointed direct representative,
or under specific authorization from the original manufacturer.

[Kicker0429]

Plain View

If the serial number is in plain view, then law enforcement can check it to determine if the handgun is registered to the carrier. It is also a back door to identify the carrier if he or she refuses to provide his or her driver's license.

[slowjonn]

I've said this in another thread. My guess is you would not get arrested for having tape over the serial number. However...

Any cop with a day of experience on the street would be able to articulate that the tape could be/ is concealing a crime (I.E. obliteration of serial number)and detain you, however briefly, to determine if a crime has in fact occurred.

No tape = Loaded check and on your way.

Tape = brief detainment to determine if a crime has been committed, then loaded check and on your way.

The tape is going to accomplish nothing. Either way, your SN is going to be visible. The tape may actually have you sitting there, being examined longer than no tape.

[SoCalDep]

Uh Oh...My Tac Star sidesaddle covers the serial number on my Rem 870. Any Weaponlight will cover the serial number on a Glock. Etc. Etc....

I wouldn't enforce the covering section unless I felt that I could articulate it was done purposefully to advance a criminal act. In that case it would probably be an add-charge.

The big problem that UOC guys are going to run into is a situation where they get stopped and have the serial covered on purpose with something like tape (as opposed to a sidesaddle/light/etc.). That alone would go a long way toward reasonable suspicion that a crime was afoot. So then I run the serial number and determine that the pistol is not registered or worse, registered to someone else. If I can't contact that person and verify that the pistol is not stolen, or if, based on the totality of the circumstances I can't verify that the pistol is not stolen, poor UOC guy may go to jail for RC 496PC.

Yea, if he knows it's his gun then no one will report it stolen and he'll eventually be released but he'll have no recourse as it's a legal arrest and he just wasted several days of his life, not to mention the negative experience of being in jail. And all this to make a point that is pointless.

I get the concept of civil disobedience, and to a certain extent I'm glad there are those who are willing to accept consequences for a cause. The problem I see is that when people push the limits too far, people are going to be turned off and democrats are going to introduce a bill to simply ban open carry of unloaded firearms. Then the whole shebang grinds to a halt. We're fighting a war of public opinion here. Our principals are just that...Ours. If we can't convince others to go along with us, then democrats will be elected. They will appoint liberal judges who will make liberal decisions and we will loose. We will loose badly and much of the blame will be our own.

[Ron-Solo]

I'd only arrest if they were being a butthead and I was really looking for a reason to hook you.

Other than that, SlowJohn summed it up pretty good.

In my opinion, only someone with something to hide or up to no good would be interested in hiding a serial number.

If you are on the up and up, why are you so concerned with hiding the serial number?

[SJgunguy24]

I hate to play what if's guys but what if...My pistol is holsterd in a thigh rig, no mag and slide locked back? That gun is clearly unloaded and wouldn't be subject to any search? Am I correct on this one?

And no I will NOT be trying this while riding my bicycle.

[SoCalDep]

The serial number is covered by the holster...You're going down!!!!!!!

In all seriousness...The way the law reads, an officer could likely still approach and inspect...A round could still be in the chamber even if the slide is to the rear behind it.