Issued Ammunition Database

[cgnavarro]

I've read and heard from a well known "gun guru" that a safe bet when choosing defensive ammunition is to use what your local law enforcement agencies use. You would do this so that in the event that you might be forced to shoot someone to save your life, the type of ammunition you used could not be a factor used against you by a prosecutor wanting to paint you as a vicious gun toter looking to pack the most destructive ammo you could find (ie. Harold Fish).

If the argument were made, the simple response would be that you are no more vicious than the officers who protect you, who are issued the same ammo.

This post is not about the validity of this advice, but rather testing the waters as to the possibility of creating a thread in which various members of local departments/agencies, or anyone holding the knowledge could post what local officers are using in their service weapons, and perhaps even making it a sticky.

I've seen this question asked and answered on these forums before, so I hope this wouldn't be breaking any rules.

I thought about posting this in the ammo forum, but since this has to do specifically with LEO issued ammo, I felt this forum would be more appropriate. If not; please move it to the correct froum, mods.

If you're curious, my particular aim is finding out what Anaheim PD, and the O.C. Sheriff's Department issue in 9mm, and .40 S&W.

Thanks.

[gumby]

OCSD uses Federal HST in all their rounds. 9mm--147g .40--180g .45--230g.

[cgnavarro]

Thanks for the quick reply, gumby. Looks like they're the heaviest mainstream weights. Do they require these round to be used in BUGs as well? I ask because my wife and I both own short barrel semi-autos.

[Jonathan Doe]

The agencies use most premium ammo:

Winchester SXT T series
Federal HST
Speer Gold Dot
Remington Golden Saber
.
.
.
.



I have seen them all.

As far as I know, the ammunition is not an issue when you are involved in shooting. The LEO's using non-authorized ammo becomes an issue.

[oddjob]

ammo

We buy ours through a goverment contract and the ammo changes year to year. We could have WW this year and Rem the next. We have a mix of W-W 230 jhp, 45 acp and W-W SXT 230's as an example. I understand your concept, but at least at our agency the ammo changes too much to be consistent. In the .40's and 45's the weight stays the same (180's and 230's). The ammo is tested then bids are requested. Low bids win. This how OUR agency buys ammo. Different agencies have a different process.

I have to agree with topgun7 in regards to the use of ammo. I have never seen or heard of a case where the use of ammunition was a factor in a LEO or non-sworn self defense shooting (31yr LEO here & range nazi for 27 yrs). That includes criminal or civil cases. I'm not saying it never has occurred just that I've never heard of any.

We have to use the same ammo in our duty/backup/off duty guns (I call them "people guns").

Having said that here is what we usually issue:

.380 W-W 95 grn flat point fmj
9mm 127 +P+ WW SXT and 147 grn W-W
40 W-W or Rem 180 jhp's
45 W-W 230 jhp's or SXT's
.38 W-W 110 +P+, W-W 130 jhp's, W-W125 jhp's, 158 SWC LHP
.223 W-W 64grn soft points
12 g W-W OO buck/Rem & W-W 1oz slugs

[zinfull]

It was in AZ where Harold Fish used hollow points and was raked across the coals . But hings have changed in AZ. Here is something about their laws.

http://arizonaccwpermit.com/2009/04/30/does-the-use-of-hollow-point-ammunition-increase-legal-liability-in-a-justified-shooting/

jerry

[cgnavarro]

zinfull beat me to it. But here is an excerpt from an interview with the prosecutor who prosecuted Harold Fish, and how his gun and ammunition played a part in his prosecution. The reporter is "Larson", the prosecutor is "Lessler":

"And the jury had another issue to think about: Fish’s gun.

The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body.

When he decided to pull the trigger, the prosecutor said, Fish should have known what the consequences would be.

Lessler: Mr. Fish knew well what a hollow-point bullet does.

Larson: And the end product of his shooting is going to be death?

Lessler: Yes."

As you can see, both the gun's caliber and ammunition type were used to help condemn him. There are others, but this case gained a lot of notariety lately.

But like I said, I want to keep this thread about issued ammo, not about the argument for knowing it. I thank everyone for their replies so far.

[Jonathan Doe]

For my 23+ years of LE career, I haven't heard anything about the ammo being issue at the court, whether it was used by LEO or civilians. The above exchange doesn't make much sense.

I have seen more LRN and FMJ bullets killed people than hollow point bullets. Those LRN and FMJ are less dangerous?

Also, if you shoot someone with 22LR, is it less dangerous than shooting someone with 44 Mag? Nonsense!

[oddjob]

Case

I don't doubt the points made here, but I would have to read the ENTIRE case to make a determination if the ammunition was the issue or a side issue. I'm a 31 yr LEO career type dude, 27 yr range nazi, and out of habit & practice need all information on any case. Please don't take this the wrong way....its just years of experience. Kinda like a Joe Friday....."just the facts." The old Dragnet show for you younger people.