OC in vehicle / CC at work

[Denver]

Hopefully I am in the correct sector here.

Nice forum and first post.

I understand that I can OC unloaded, but then there are these transportation issues with locked containers. So if I am OCing and walking around and then I get into my car to go drive I have to put it into a locked container? It seems strange that I could not have it holstered or in plain view on passenger seat but yet I can have it unconcealed on my person as soon as I egress my vehicle.

Second Q

If I understand correctly I may CC on my property and place of business. I am a Corporate Pilot and a Certified Flight Instructor. Does this mean that I can CC anywhere on the airport property, airplanes I fly, etc? I am pretty sure I can CC on an aircraft in which I am Pilot In Command as long as I have permission from the buissness owner (which I do). Where does this end though? Do I have to leave it in the airplane or switch to OC mode?

Thank you

[darksands]

I am not LE but many of my friends are and have given me answers to this. Technically, you can have your unloaded pistol in the passenger seat in plain view as well as on your dash in plain view legally. You can have it holstered in plain view while you are driving but the seat belt may be covering it so that could be represented as concealed. You can have a gun rack with your unloaded shotgun hanging there... There are some caveats to this... ie. schoolzones and whatnot.

As far as your second question, Airport property does not equate to company property. Also, public planes ie. American Airlines, United, Jetblue, etc... does not count as a place of business. There was a recent law about pilots carrying while in flight. If you fly corporate big wigs in private Gulf Streams and you operate in private terminals and hangars then that is a different story. That would be private property and you are at the discretion of your employers.

If I am wrong, let me know as all this is hearsay from others.

[Ron-Solo]

Way too many variables in the situations you describe. Airports are touchy. you need to check with the LE at that particular facility.

[Denver]

Thanks.

It is a private aircraft under my command when it is in operation. Airports are grey however, i.e. private business on city property. I believe the law uses wording like "place of business". It would seem to imply wherever I go to do business, becomes my place.

Any court cases out there to cite?

[Fjold]

Thanks.

It is a private aircraft under my command when it is in operation. Airports are grey however, i.e. private business on city property. I believe the law uses wording like "place of business". It would seem to imply wherever I go to do business, becomes my place.

Any court cases out there to cite?

The problem you get into considering every place that you work as your place of business is that almost everyone could do that. When I drive my company car does that mean that I could carry comcealed because I'm working there? Every contractor could claim that every job site he has is his place of business also. So if a contractor was hired to work on a job in city hall, would he be able to CC there?

[cmonk518]

TSA is the only sole authority that can make pilots into Federal Flight Deck Officers. There is so much red tape bureaucracy involved, extensive training by Federal Air Marshals and other federal law enforcement agencies, reinforced steel doors, TSA approved lockboxes in the cockpit, etc.

I highly doubt esp working for a private company that you would be allowed to carry a loaded firearm anywhere on airport grounds. My father also works on a joint task force with FBI, DEA, IRS, and Customs at LAX and even they said all plainclothes and undercover agents have to be approved by airport officials that allow them to carry concealed weapons on airport property. Even though they are allowed by law to carry anywhere in USA, to work on-duty in certain little places in the airport (like tarmac area), you need authorization. So I can just imagine how a pilot couldn't just walk around with a firearm loaded or unloaded.

But as with all advice on forums, don't take it from me, ask TSA.

[Denver]

I find it interesting "place of work" is so broad-brushed. Law is supposed to be very specific.

great site

[calicop]

Denver,

Your location says you are in the Monterey area, so I will assume you fly out of Monterey Airport. There is nothing in FAR Part 91 (that I can see), so I would recommend following state laws. But, because Monterey Airport is a commercial airport, there are federal restricted areas on the airfield itself. I would call the Monterey Airport Police Department and have them put you in contact with the TSA liaison to find out where those restricted areas are. I'm sure its the commercial terminal areas.

Other than that, follow state laws and re-review all of FAR Part 91.

[Denver]

Yes, The TSA ramp area is outlined in red paint on the tarmac side and I am not even allowed to taxi in it unless prior approval has been obtained. The TSA area extends to include the terminal itself bordered by the security glass and detectors. Gun's are definitely not allowed in this area, even open unloaded carry by a civilian. I have seen gun check's on the tarmac side at some airports before entering TSA area.

Part 91 or 135 does not indicate anything, however federal law allows pilots to carry in the aircraft as long as it is approved by the company the pilot flies for. My boss actually likes the idea. The problem is when I de-board the aircraft (non TSA area) and am on the Ramp, FBO, crew car, etc. I am still "on the clock" and "in my place of business".

It is a sticky area and I get differing "opinions" from asking local authorities. I think if it came down to it you would get different rulings from different judges if you got "popped" for it. The law is very grey, and is probably this way on purpose.