Can a convicted felon be in the same house as a gun?

[sac550]

If I came in contact with that type of situation where I was in a house and there was a firearm in a common area and one person was a convicted felon, If I did not charge the felon with possession I would at least take the gun in for safe keeping because the legal owner of the firearm is not following the law and having it secured where the felon could not have access to it[/QUOTE]

What law requires someone to secure their firearm so a felon can't have access? Please post the PC or U.S Code you are thinking of. If you were to take my gun for safekeeping in the situation you are talking about I would sue for a 4th amendment violation. There is "no safekeeping" exception to the 4 amendment when it comes to taking firearms. Remember during Katrina the government took the firearms from law abiding citizens for "safekeeping". The city and police all got sued for 4th amendment violations and lost! The gun owners received huge settlement. However, you could also be prosecuted for depriving a citizen of his/her constitutional rights in federal court.

[tyrist]

So then in my marijuana scenario you would arrest my wife for possession of MJ when it is prescribed to me. Or how about as we speak my wife has a prescription for Vicodin on the kitchen counter. She is at the store and I am in the same room with it. If an officer were to come into my house right now, under your theory, I should be arrested for 11350 (felony poss controlled substance). Why then should the prescription be looked at any differently then a gun? Does anyone really think access equals possession?

I agree you may get some cop that doesn't think the situation through and just wants to hook/book. When it comes to guns cops have a hard time leaving guns behind and think they should take them. but that doesn't make it right or illegal. Know the law and be able to articulate your position. common sense usually does win out.

The weed both of you can be arrested...the vicodin nobody. What do you think we do when we find an illegal gun in the house and nobody will claim it?

[sac550]

But why is the vicodin different then the gun? There is no difference. It is illegal for one occupant to have and legal for the other. How would you arrest both occupants for the weed when one person has a prescription for it under 215?

We are not talking about going into a house and finding a gun that no occupant is claiming. That is a different scenario that doesn't apply to the question that started all this.

[tyrist]

But why is the vicodin different then the gun? There is no difference. It is illegal for one occupant to have and legal for the other. How would you arrest both occupants for the weed when one person has a prescription for it under 215?

We are not talking about going into a house and finding a gun that no occupant is claiming. That is a different scenario that doesn't apply to the question that started all this.

You need to remember all we need is probable cause....basically it probably happened. A convicted felon in control and ownership of a room in a residence which contains a firearm. That suspect probably has/had possession of that firearm.

Marijuana is still contraband whether you have a prescription or not. There is also no legit way of verifying the legality of any of the prescriptions anyway...the whole issue is so grey. Just book the weed issue the cite and let the City Attorney figure it out. It's still 100% a violation of federal law anyway so you are legally covered as far as unlawful arrests.

The prescription medicine possession scenario is just silly.

[sac550]

I suggest you read the latest 9th Circuit opinions and 3rd District opinions which say officers can be sued for seizing marijuana when the person has a prescription. Federal law doesn't apply to possession of marijuana (cultivation or possession for sale is a federal crime). However, again we are getting off topic.

Why is the prescription scenario different then a gun? nobody can answer that. And you better believe when a good civil attorney is giving his closing while you are in federal court he/she will ask the jury to think of the scenario.

You said, "A convicted felon in control and ownership of a room in a residence which contains a firearm." I would agree with you, if that was the question. However, the scenario is the felon lives in a room where a non-prohibited person possesses a firearm. If the felon lived alone, then yes he/she is a 12021 arrest.

"That suspect probably has/had possession of that firearm", well that is not 51 % so you don't have PC to arrest. You have to have facts not just a hunch.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I just think when it comes to guns officer often open themselves up to being sued. Stewart Katz makes a lot of money suing cops for bad gun arrest, even when the officer had good intentions.

If someone can tell me why the Vicodin scenario is not right on point I would love to hear it.

[Jwood562]

I understand your aguements.

Lets touch a little back on my convicted felon roomate scenario to try and clear things a little bit. So you would be comfortable with the gun in the living room or kitchen where the convicted felon resides? That would be an easy arrest and all the PC exists to make an arrest. Would the DA file on it? mayabe a 50/50 chance, but the PC exists. And if the arrest is made the gun would be taken from the rightful owner anyways. they probably will get it back eventually.

Honestly if any officer stepped into a home and there was an unsecrued firearm that the restricted person had access to for example on the dining room table. that is enough for a PC arrest.

Now a little on the dope or gun in a car. If it in the center console of the vehcile and all four people in the car are within arms reach and no one takes responsibility for it, they can all be arrested for it.

Now my experiences for "medical" marijuana. Everyone and their mom has a license to have medical marijuana. In the field I have no way to validate if their prescription is real or not. All of the cards look different, the doctors phone numbers never work or they do not answer. I wish the state would come together and make one universal looking card (like a dirvers license) so it make it easy for us to validate it. Plus I have heard many different things like the person can have the marijuana but not transport it on their person or in their car unless just filling their prescription. maybe someone can shed some light on that. Marijuana is not the crime of the century and I usually take the spirit of the law with that issue.


now with your Vicodin scenario. it can be pursued in the same manner. If I found roomate near other guys bottle of pills I would definatly ask questions but probably not prusue the point I would if it were a gun. Why you ask? honestly because pills do not pose a risk of killing me but guns do. That is why situations with guns get pursued a lot harder by police.

There hopefully everything is clear as mud now right boys

[sac550]

well we will just have to a agree to disagree. If the gun is on the kitchen counter and nobody claims it and it is the felons house then he goes. However, if it is on the kitchen table and the wife who is home claims it and lets say there is a DROS in her name there is no-way you can take him.

The fact that it is a gun and not a pill bottle doesn't make a difference when it comes to the 4th amendment and taking some into custody or seizing their property. Obviously you could secure the gun while you were on scene for officer safety.

[Jwood562]

Agreed. Honestly thanks for bringing valid arguemdnts and a very educated point of view into the arguements and getting your points across clearly. Thnks to everyone who replied in this topic

[sac550]

Agreed. Honestly thanks for bringing valid arguemdnts and a very educated point of view into the arguements and getting your points across clearly. Thnks to everyone who replied in this topic

Yes, I agree that some very good points were brought up and discussed in this debate. I have great respect for people that can articulate a position and argue their point (right or wrong).

[tyrist]

Sac550

The issue is being placed into a very small box. There are so many issues which can come into play and change at anytime. The mere presence of a firearm inside of a dwelling with the legal owner and a convicted felon may not result in arrest. I could list hundred of circumstances which could occur that link the felon to the firearm and would result in arrest even if it was legally owned by another person inside of the residence. I just merely stated it could be seen as possession.

If a firearm was owned by the felons wife and it had a trigger lock on it that the felon was in possession of the key etc. The situation can be dynamic and change throughout the day which is why it is not advisable to have a firearm which a felon could have any access too.

[oddjob]

Firearm in house

To the original question...the answer is yes. The felon can be in the same house as a gun. As long as the felon has no access to the weapon (like dad has guns locked in a safe the felon son can't get to). I've done enough work with parole agents to figure this one out. Hope this helps.......

[tyrist]

To the original question...the answer is yes. The felon can be in the same house as a gun. As long as the felon has no access to the weapon (like dad has guns locked in a safe the felon son can't get to). I've done enough work with parole agents to figure this one out. Hope this helps.......

Being a convicted felon is different than parole. If you are on parole it is a parole violation to even have access to a firearm. It changes when you have discharged.

[Ron-Solo]

If I have reasonable cause to believe the felon has control of the firearm, he goes, period.

No freebies for felons.

You have to work hard to get a felony conviction in California, and I don't care if it is for armed robbery or sneaking into an orchard and stealing more than $101 worth of avocados or oranges from an orchard. If you get a felony conviction for that, you've done a lot of bad things that were misdemeanors, which means you are STUPID and deserve everything you get, and probably aren't smart enough to be trusted with a gun.

Same with anyone who falls under the 3 strikes guidelines. You're done, go away forever.

[rambo]

So then in my marijuana scenario you would arrest my wife for possession of MJ when it is prescribed to me. Or how about as we speak my wife has a prescription for Vicodin on the kitchen counter. She is at the store and I am in the same room with it. If an officer were to come into my house right now, under your theory, I should be arrested for 11350 (felony poss controlled substance). Why then should the prescription be looked at any differently then a gun? Does anyone really think access equals possession?

I agree you may get some cop that doesn't think the situation through and just wants to hook/book. When it comes to guns cops have a hard time leaving guns behind and think they should take them. but that doesn't make it right or illegal. Know the law and be able to articulate your position. common sense usually does win out.

I agree and clearly see your view!