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  • SDDAVE56
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2011
    • 2157

    AB 742: Police K-9s

    Hopefully everyones aware of this, and it doesn't pass.

    AB 742: Police K-9s

    ?This bill would prohibit the use of an unleashed police canine by law enforcement to apprehend a person, person unless the person is being pursued for a felony that threatened or resulted in the death of or serious bodily injury to another person and the person poses an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury to the officer or to another person and any use of a police canine for crowd control. The bill would prohibit a police canine from being used to bite unless there is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the officer or another person by the person against whom the canine is used. The bill would attribute the death of or serious bodily injury to a person caused by a police canine to the canine?s handler as constituting deadly force. The bill would prohibit law enforcement agencies from authorizing any use or training of a police canine that is inconsistent with this bill.?



    Below is San Diego PD Chief Nisleit?s statement.
    San Diego Police Department
    11h ?
    San Diego Police Chief David Nisleit issued the following statement today on the proposed Assembly Bill 742 (AB 742), which would prohibit and restrict the use of police canines.
    Chief Nisleit Statement:
    ?The proposed California State Assembly Bill 742 is another flawed attempt by state legislators to reduce racial disparities and use of force in policing.
    Since 1984, SDPD has used police K-9?s to locate and apprehend suspects in circumstances that are exceedingly dangerous for officers, such as searching in dark canyons, buildings, homes, or vehicles, where a concealed suspect maintains an advantage over officers. The K-9 affords officers time and distance to better analyze the situation and respond appropriately from a safer distance.
    SDPD has an extensive selection, academy and training program for canine handlers that exceeds California P.O.S.T. requirements. SDPD has policies and procedures which outline how and when K-9?s can be used in the field as well as procedures for review of every apprehension using a K-9.
    The vast majority of K-9 deployments in San Diego are for de-escalating dangerous/volatile incidents with confrontational, irrational, armed and/or suicidal subjects that fail to respond to the presence and direction of uniformed officers. Handlers are required to issue K-9 warnings to suspects and often, the warnings are repeated multiple times throughout an incident before a K-9 is released for apprehension.
    Over the past 5 years, SDPD K9?s were used at 10,815 calls for service and accounted for 927 subjects complying with officers after just the mere presence of the K-9. In only 1% of the calls over the last 5 years, did the suspect ignore the K-9 warnings, refuse to surrender and, as a result, was bitten. No SDPD K-9 deployment has resulted in death or life-threatening injury.
    AB 742 wrongly categorizes a police K-9 as deadly force, considering the K-9 no different than a firearm. Categorizing the K-9?s in this manner is misguided and would eliminate a valuable de-escalation tool in instances where other tools may have failed, but deadly force is not warranted.
    The passage of AB 742 will put officers into more dangerous situations without a de-escalation tool that is capable of apprehending violent suspects without the use of a firearm.
    The unintended consequence of this piece of legislation will be an increase in officer-involved shootings, officer and suspect injury, and increased threats to community safety.
    I urge our legislators to keep this tool intact for the safety of our officers and the communities they serve.?
  • #2
    SB1942
    Member
    • Mar 2019
    • 279

    Just in case you want to meet the brain surgeon behind this bill:

    ITrader Info:

    https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1884648

    Comment

    • #3
      Grobie
      Member
      • Sep 2016
      • 179

      Leave it to stupid woke politicians to fix a problem that never existed.

      Comment

      • #4
        dno
        Member
        • Mar 2011
        • 272

        Yea, but there are a lot of so called conservatives who'll reply, "Meh, play my small violin, doesn't effect me"...That's why these bills get passed and that's why we have so many wing nut politicians getting elected.

        Comment

        • #5
          9Cal_OC
          Calguns Addict
          • Apr 2019
          • 6687

          Originally posted by dno
          Yea, but there are a lot of so called conservatives who'll reply, "Meh, play my small violin, doesn't effect me"...That's why these bills get passed and that's why we have so many wing nut politicians getting elected.
          Hey, leave YSR out of this
          Freedom isn't free...

          sigpic

          iTrader

          Comment

          • #6
            TrailerparkTrash
            Veteran Member
            • Oct 2005
            • 4249

            Next thing you know, they’ll take the carotid restraint away from cops.

            “Oh wait… what’s this?…. That already went away!!!”
            -Mark Dice
            sigpic

            It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs

            -ΙΧΘΥΣ <><

            Comment

            • #7
              pacrat
              I need a LIFE!!
              • May 2014
              • 10283

              Originally posted by Grobie
              Leave it to stupid woke politicians to fix a problem that never existed.
              I share your disdain of [stupid woke politicians]. I am also fully aware what great tools, K-9s are for many aspects of LE. But like all tools, they have specific purposes and limitations. Dogs as smart as they are. Are incapable of cognitive reasoning capability. That is the handlers job.

              But please explain, in your opinion, at what point does a [problem actually exist]?

              If you were asleep in your bed, bothering no one, and didn't hear the phone ring, and woke up to a K-9 ripping your neck open. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


              If you were sleeping in a bush. Bothering no one. And you were woken by a K-9 ripping your scalp off your head. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


              If you were sleeping in a tent in your own back yard. Bothering no one. And you were woken by a K-9 attacking you, and ripping your arm open. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


              If you walked out of your neighborhood liquor store and were attacked by a K-9. Would you consider that to be an actual problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nYGjU85CU0

              If your 20 yr old pregnant wife/sister/daughter, heard a rukus in front of your house. And stepped onto your porch to investigate. And was attacked by a K-9, and hospitalized. Would you consider that to be an actual problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h1BizuCKAY

              I could go on and on, but I believe I have made my point. No one is immune from LE K9 attacks. They even attack their own handlers occasionally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDXK1xW1fg

              As well as toddlers, ....5 yr olds, and ...... little old ladies. Being naked in the shower is not even safe, https://youtu.be/TUs-PZ_G0Fk Even a blind man in a church. https://youtu.be/gkT1q7DKaL4

              So the problem does exist. And their human handlers oft times make matters worse by trying to CTA and their dogs tails, by arresting people they know committed no crime. For pc-148. Then at press releases the brass invariably calls each incident an [UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT].

              dno said; "Meh, play my small violin, doesn't effect me".
              And I agree with that part. But it has nothing to do with conservatives, or wing nut politicians getting elected. It is just human nature to be apathetic towards issues unless you have some sort of skin in the game.

              Comment

              • #8
                esy
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2012
                • 1191

                Originally posted by pacrat
                I share your disdain of [stupid woke politicians]. I am also fully aware what great tools, K-9s are for many aspects of LE. But like all tools, they have specific purposes and limitations. Dogs as smart as they are. Are incapable of cognitive reasoning capability. That is the handlers job.

                But please explain, in your opinion, at what point does a [problem actually exist]?

                If you were asleep in your bed, bothering no one, and didn't hear the phone ring, and woke up to a K-9 ripping your neck open. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


                If you were sleeping in a bush. Bothering no one. And you were woken by a K-9 ripping your scalp off your head. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


                If you were sleeping in a tent in your own back yard. Bothering no one. And you were woken by a K-9 attacking you, and ripping your arm open. Would you consider that to be an actual problem?


                If you walked out of your neighborhood liquor store and were attacked by a K-9. Would you consider that to be an actual problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nYGjU85CU0

                If your 20 yr old pregnant wife/sister/daughter, heard a rukus in front of your house. And stepped onto your porch to investigate. And was attacked by a K-9, and hospitalized. Would you consider that to be an actual problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h1BizuCKAY

                I could go on and on, but I believe I have made my point. No one is immune from LE K9 attacks. They even attack their own handlers occasionally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDXK1xW1fg

                As well as toddlers, ....5 yr olds, and ...... little old ladies. Being naked in the shower is not even safe, https://youtu.be/TUs-PZ_G0Fk Even a blind man in a church. https://youtu.be/gkT1q7DKaL4

                So the problem does exist. And their human handlers oft times make matters worse by trying to CTA and their dogs tails, by arresting people they know committed no crime. For pc-148. Then at press releases the brass invariably calls each incident an [UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT].



                And I agree with that part. But it has nothing to do with conservatives, or wing nut politicians getting elected. It is just human nature to be apathetic towards issues unless you have some sort of skin in the game.
                I?m trying to understand your position. It sounds like we should remove K9s from the LE world because there is a small percentage of bad uses of force or accidents.

                By that logic, we should abolish the 2nd amendment because of a small percentage of accidents or problems.

                Where are you going with your logic?

                Comment

                • #9
                  bohoki
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 20816

                  it seems every k9 takedown was in the comission of a felony so i dont get what this changes

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Oldmandan
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 2721

                    Originally posted by bohoki
                    it seems every k9 takedown was in the comission of a felony so i dont get what this changes
                    It?s a get rich quick scheme at the taxpayers expense
                    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them" - Richard Henry Lee

                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      pacrat
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • May 2014
                      • 10283

                      Originally posted by esy
                      [1] ... I?m trying to understand your position. [2] ... It sounds like we should remove K9s from the LE world [3] .... because there is a small percentage of bad uses of force or accidents. [4] ... By that logic, we should abolish the 2nd amendment because of a small percentage of accidents or problems.

                      [5] ... Where are you going with your logic?
                      [1] ... Sorry I didn't make clear that I personally, in NO WAY wish, want, or advocate for the removal of K9s from the tool box available for LE.

                      [2] ... And my post was in NO WAY meant to cast any aspersions on the tens of thousands of LE K9 Handlers, and their partners, who exercise proper restraint in the performance of their duties. To keep both themselves, and citizens safe.

                      [3] ... That small percentage of lack of restraint, and the bad uses of force, that you mention. And IMHO is just a small, even tiny part of a percent. DOES EXIST. And should be mitigated in such a way to keep officers and citizens safe. Or at least as safe as humanly possible. We as citizens and LEO alike, know that it is just such incidents that make headlines and create even more divisiveness, further feeding the US v THEM PR MONSTER.

                      [4] ... Glad you mentioned 2A. It reads SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. But all reasonable people, know that we have laws that we citizens welcome. That INFRINGE on the rights, of individuals to use arms in criminal, and reckless acts. That infringe on the rights of fellow citizens.

                      [5] .... Again glad you asked. By my logic, if LE takes the initiative, and self regulate, and standardize, K9 UOF policy, like they do most all other aspects of the profession. To do all possible to assure the safety of all concerned. Then [stupid woke politicians] lose one more reason to side with the BLMers and go after LE.

                      Grobie ... Leave it to stupid woke politicians to fix a problem that never existed.
                      ^^^ Don't give [stupid woke politicians] traction by ignoring an issue in the hopes it goes away, by claiming it never existed.

                      Be Safe

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        esy
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 1191

                        Originally posted by pacrat
                        [1] ... Sorry I didn't make clear that I personally, in NO WAY wish, want, or advocate for the removal of K9s from the tool box available for LE.

                        [2] ... And my post was in NO WAY meant to cast any aspersions on the tens of thousands of LE K9 Handlers, and their partners, who exercise proper restraint in the performance of their duties. To keep both themselves, and citizens safe.

                        [3] ... That small percentage of lack of restraint, and the bad uses of force, that you mention. And IMHO is just a small, even tiny part of a percent. DOES EXIST. And should be mitigated in such a way to keep officers and citizens safe. Or at least as safe as humanly possible. We as citizens and LEO alike, know that it is just such incidents that make headlines and create even more divisiveness, further feeding the US v THEM PR MONSTER.

                        [4] ... Glad you mentioned 2A. It reads SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. But all reasonable people, know that we have laws that we citizens welcome. That INFRINGE on the rights, of individuals to use arms in criminal, and reckless acts. That infringe on the rights of fellow citizens.

                        [5] .... Again glad you asked. By my logic, if LE takes the initiative, and self regulate, and standardize, K9 UOF policy, like they do most all other aspects of the profession. To do all possible to assure the safety of all concerned. Then [stupid woke politicians] lose one more reason to side with the BLMers and go after LE.



                        ^^^ Don't give [stupid woke politicians] traction by ignoring an issue in the hopes it goes away, by claiming it never existed.

                        Be Safe
                        Ok. I can?t speak to what Grobie meant by his post, but I can only hypothesize (whether LEO or not) his meaning, sarcasm, cynicism, and jaded connotation to his post.

                        I don?t believe you could find any active or retired LEO on here who doesn?t realize or see the small percentage; however, by allowing a small percentage to dictate poor policies which have an umbrella and many times, detrimental, effect on policing is bad business. It sets bad precedence for future events.

                        I haven?t met a single handler or officer who have gotten bit, scratched, or hurt from a K9 who believes they should be limited or removed from LE. Do they exist? Possibly, but again, tiny percentages.

                        Just like TPT mentioned carotid restraints. I don?t know a single LEO who has used, seen it used, or had it put on them who believed that was a good idea to label as lethal force, but here we are.

                        Is there a problem which is a tiny percentage? Yes. Does it call for widespread legal changes which will affect all departments throughout the state in regards to our use? Not in the slightest.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          pacrat
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • May 2014
                          • 10283

                          Is there a problem which is a tiny percentage? Yes. Does it call for widespread legal changes which will affect all departments throughout the state in regards to our use? Not in the slightest.
                          My POINT again is not advocating for any [ widespread legal changes ]. Even though it may likely come to that. Because the polititurds are already circling the wagons, and smell blood in the water. I assuredly hope this bill fails to pass. And LEAs step up and do everything possible to change their public optics on the issue.

                          again
                          [5] .... Again glad you asked. By my logic, if LE takes the initiative, and self regulate, and standardize, K9 UOF policy, like they do most all other aspects of the profession. To do all possible to assure the safety of all concerned. Then [stupid woke politicians] lose one more reason to side with the BLMers and go after LE.
                          If LEA in this state had stepped up and made, https://post.ca.gov/Portals/0/post_d...ations/K-9.pdf
                          A standard requirement for K9 teams. Which has been available to them since 1992. And tightened their own policies regarding ON/OFF leash controls.

                          Rather than a voluntary program [like now, that the vast majority ignore. As shown by watching the videos where handlers CAN'T CONTROL their partners. Then compare those video incidents.

                          With the POST GUIDELINES for the MINUMUM REQUIRED OBEDIENCE TRAINING. You will see a big discrepancy.

                          . From a reasonable distance and on verbal command only, the K-9 will cease
                          the apprehension.
                          When big attack dogs, chew up toddlers in diapers, in their own living room. And 5 yr olds, at POLICE SPONSORED PICNICS. And a 20 yr old pregnant woman on her porch.

                          Those are not [unfortunate accidents]. No matter how small of a percentage. Those are major F-ups, with the very worse possible public optics. And it is just such incidents that feed the US v THEM agenda, and give traction to the politicians like this clown.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            dno
                            Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 272

                            OP provides 8 youtube videos of K-9 searches gone bad . But how many thousands of searches were/are conducted that were successful? How many times were cops and civilians saved from injury due to the K-9 in the search? Those were left out because like a BLM anti-LEO argument, real facts can nullify their point.
                            If you've ever been involved with a K-9 search, you would realize keeping the dog on a leash would take the searchers quite a while to cover an area.
                            I personally took part in 2 searches were the susps (robbery on one, GTA on the other) were located by the dog before any ofcr saw them...we lit up the susps with our flashlights while the dog was about 2-3 feet from the susp, just staring at him. The dog's handler is the only one giving the susp instructions, like keep your hands visible and no sudden moves. Both times the angry susp then punched the dog and wound up with a mass of hair and teeth all over him. No sympathy when a criminals actions cause him injury. When a broadcast is made over a PA system that a K-9 is being deployed, the susp chooses whether to give up or cause more problems.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              SDDAVE56
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 2157

                              Got this in an email today. Look like its been shelved for now.


                              "Although AB 742 ?Police K-9s has been shelved for this year, its author Assembly member Corey Jackson says he wants to bring it back next year claiming ?The use of police canines has been a mainstay in this country?s dehumanizing, cruel, and violent abuse of Black Americans and people of color for centuries.? [source: U-T 5-31-23 article]".

                              So this is what its all about,,

                              "cruel, and violent abuse of Black Americans and people of color for centuries"

                              We should ban private ownership of Dogs. At least have a California Approved Dog Roster. Hmm, doesn't seem to be any mention of Whitey getting chewed on.

                              Comment

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