SBS, LEO retiring

[IVC]

A deputy friend of mine wants to get a 14" Remington 870 to match the one she had on patrol, and her captain agreed to do the letter. She asked me some legal questions, but I'm not an LE so I don't follow SBS laws due to CA laws prohibiting non-LEOs from anything class 3, and I especially wouldn't know the LEO exceptions and details.

First, a simple hardware question. Does Remington still make SBS? I couldn't find anything on their website and they are out of stock everywhere. No point in trying to get one if they are discontinued.

Is she gets the SBS, what happens when she retires (she retires when she gets to 50)? Can she keep it, does she need federal paperwork, etc.?

If she can't find SBS in stock, I would assume it would be illegal to convert an AOW (no stock) to an SBS or to cut down an 18" version, the same it would be illegal for the rest of us. Is this correct, or are there workarounds?

(Yes, she's my GF, I wouldn't be getting involved otherwise.)

[RickD427]

A deputy friend of mine wants to get a 14" Remington 870 to match the one she had on patrol, and her captain agreed to do the letter. She asked me some legal questions, but I'm not an LE so I don't follow SBS laws due to CA laws prohibiting non-LEOs from anything class 3, and I especially wouldn't know the LEO exceptions and details.

First, a simple hardware question. Does Remington still make SBS? I couldn't find anything on their website and they are out of stock everywhere. No point in trying to get one if they are discontinued.

Is she gets the SBS, what happens when she retires (she retires when she gets to 50)? Can she keep it, does she need federal paperwork, etc.?

If she can't find SBS in stock, I would assume it would be illegal to convert an AOW (no stock) to an SBS or to cut down an 18" version, the same it would be illegal for the rest of us. Is this correct, or are there workarounds?

(Yes, she's my GF, I wouldn't be getting involved otherwise.)

I would not be optimistic on this.

The SBS is regulated by both California and Federal law.

California law allows an active peace officer to possess a SBS for use in their duties, but does not allow for the personal purchase of an SBS (refer to PC 33220). There's nothing that a Captain's letter would do to change this. Once a LEO retires, and is no longer performing peace officer duties, they loose the ability to possess an SBS under section 33220.

Under federal law, an SBS may be acquired, and possessed, with a tax stamp. The problem is that the BATF will not issue a tax stamp to residents of states where the personal possession is illegal.

It sounds like she has a groovy Captain, but his letter isn't gonna do any good.

Mr. "Quiet" on this forum is probably our leading expert on the NFA statutes, it would be good to learn his opinion on this.

[IVC]

Thanks as always, Rick. That's what my guess would've been, just wanted to check.

[ronbwolf]

California law allows for the purchase, and possession of SBS, AOW, Full auto, with the requirement of approval by California DOJ, who makes them out of "unobtainium!"

[RickD427]

California law allows for the purchase, and possession of SBS, AOW, Full auto, with the requirement of approval by California DOJ, who makes them out of "unobtainium!"

Please check out Penal Code section 33300. It limits such permits to folks having "Good Cause" and it limits that "Good Cause" to only two categories, neither of which cover the situation described by Mr. "IVC."

[edgerly779]

She is SOL without badge and paycheck from agency.

[L-2]

I don't remember or know the Penal Code laws as well as the Post 2&5's author, but I was issued an SBS during the last 1/4 of my LE career.

Perhaps the subject Deputy could get a department-owned SBS issued to her for take home. The Deputy's Captain may have some influence with that approval.

Another idea/option, if Remarms even has an SBS for sale anymore, and if the department is too short of firearms to issue one, is to perhaps, make a donation to the department of the money needed to buy one with the understanding an SBS would be issued to her, but she wouldn't be able to own it.

Whether she could pre-negotiate to be able to buy it upon her retirement and moving to a state where an SBS is legal to own might be doable, but complicated (I'm just thinking out-of-the-box) as any people involved may no longer be working at that department, or even the county, when she's ready to retire.

https://www.remarms.com/ledefense/

The Remarms website doesn't appear to have an SBS for sale, although Mossberg's website does.

https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html

I was a Calif. LEO, but now a Nevada resident. From a Remington Tac-14, I converted the Tac-14 into an 870 SBS which easily turned into a $1K+ project once done. In retrospect, either buy the 14" 590A1 or convert, as I did, a Tac-14 unless one finds an 870 SBS (I think I just saw one for sale in Law Vegas on Armslist):

https://www.armslist.com/posts/14293633/las-vegas-nevada-nfa-firearms-for-sale--nib---remington-870-sbs-

But, do plan to move to an SBS-legal state to personally own one (Calif. isn't the state to do so).

A 14" SBS is a wonderfully maneuverable shotgun both with weight and length. I'm impressed with the Deputy-friend in recognizing this and wanting one. I know the 18.5" shotguns aren't much longer, but they do feel just more cumbersome vs. a 14" SBS.

Will she be able to compromise her wants with an 18.5" 870? While staying in Calif., that's what I did until moving.

[ronbwolf]

Please check out Penal Code section 33300. It limits such permits to folks having "Good Cause" and it limits that "Good Cause" to only two categories, neither of which cover the situation described by Mr. "IVC."

"Good cause," would that be the same "good cause," struck down by SCOTUS in Bruen? Quite likely. Good cause is a term used by scurrilous legislators, to substitute for, "only if I like you!" As SCOTUS said in Bruen, arbitrary laws are not law!

[ARDude]

I'm sure Rick will give his input on this.
I'm pretty sure that Bruen was about CCW restrictions, not restrictions on obtaining NFA items in Ca.

[RickD427]

"Good cause," would that be the same "good cause," struck down by SCOTUS in Bruen? Quite likely. Good cause is a term used by scurrilous legislators, to substitute for, "only if I like you!" As SCOTUS said in Bruen, arbitrary laws are not law!

Mayby it is, and maybe it isn't. We don't know yet. The Supreme Court gave a pretty good treatment to the concept of "Good Cause" in relation to New York's CCW statute. But the court didn't globally eliminate the use of "Good Cause" criteria.

I think that you're mistaken in your belief that the NYSRPA decision contained language that "arbitrary laws are not law." A quick word search shows that the word "arbitrary" is used in four instances in the decision, and none of them are as you claimed. In two of those instances, the decision spoke of laws that are "arbitrary and capricious", but not to the extent that such laws are not law. But the last time I did such a word search, an alert Calgunner proved me wrong. Here's your opportunity. Please show where in the NYSRPA decision there is any such quote.

I'm sure Rick will give his input on this.
I'm pretty sure that Bruen was about CCW restrictions, not restrictions on obtaining NFA items in Ca.

Yup, You're right on point.

[ronbwolf]

I did not use a quote for "arbitrary and capricious," intentionally, first because I did not want to hijack the thread, and second because the "arbitrary and capricious" nature of most all "gun control laws," which are all based in racism, is well known!

Capricious:

adjective

Characterized by, arising from, or subject to caprice; impulsive or unpredictable.

Governed or characterized by caprice; apt to change suddenly; freakish; whimsical; changeable.

Impulsive and unpredictable; determined by chance, impulse, or whim

[TrailerparkTrash]

Spoiler alert: Her dreams will be crushed. Ain’t gonna happen.

[RickD427]

I did not use a quote for "arbitrary and capricious," intentionally, first because I did not want to hijack the thread, and second because the "arbitrary and capricious" nature of most all "gun control laws," which are all based in racism, is well known!

Capricious:

adjective

Characterized by, arising from, or subject to caprice; impulsive or unpredictable.

Governed or characterized by caprice; apt to change suddenly; freakish; whimsical; changeable.

Impulsive and unpredictable; determined by chance, impulse, or whim

All of the above is really groovy. You've found a dictionary definition of "Capricious". But nothing that you posted above answers the question - Where in the NYSRPA decision does it make the statement "arbitrary laws are not law"?