Red Light Camera

[spyde12]

Location: Ventura, CA
Intersection: E. Main St & Lemon Grove Ave
Time: Little after 11 PM

Description:
Earlier tonight when I was driving, I was in the process of slowing down to come to a complete stop when the light turned yellow. When I finally came to a stop, the front tires went over over pedestrian line and the cameras from two areas flashed.

Question:
Should I expect to receive a letter in the mail?
Does AI technology exist that automatically reviews the photos/video and makes the determination, or is this done by a human?
In the event I do get a violation in the mail, I should be able to prove I didn't drive thru the intersection because these photos will have timestamps, correct?

Thanks in advance.

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[Rustlin’ Jack]

Description:
Earlier tonight when I was driving, I was in the process of slowing down to come to a complete stop when the light turned yellow. When I finally came to a stop, the front tires went over over pedestrian line and the cameras from two areas flashed.

I cannot help you out much with the red light camera technology, and I personally dislike and distrust them. I think you may receive a citation for failing to stop behind the limit line. Failing to stop before your tires went over the line is part of the red light violation in California.


VEHICLE CODE - VEH
DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
CHAPTER 2. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Markings [21350 - 21468] ( Chapter 2 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

ARTICLE 3. Offenses Relating to Traffic Devices [21450 - 21468] ( Article 3 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

21453.
(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).

[yakdout]

Usually they have video, should be ok.


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[DolphinFan]

I thought red light cameras were unlawful in CA

[sealocan]

I don't know if this will help you but I was at a red light camera stop and an ambulance came up behind me so I went through to let them through... I got a ticket,that came with a photograph that was clearly me and back then it was an out-of-state scam company that was running the whole thing and making deals with local city governments that they would supposedly get some of the money that this scam brought in.
anyway, you had to pay your ticket in advance I think it was around $400, even way back then, just to be able to legally go fight it in court later.
I paid it, I had to fight it and eventually I won but after two trips to deal with this scam I kind of felt the whole thing either should be ignored or just paid and save the hassle of dealing with the local court system, which was Worse than the out of State scam red light ticket system.

Not too long after that they removed them from a few cities because people were complaining that it was actually a large majority of the money that was leaving the state and those cities were getting just a small cut and a lot of angry people.

Good luck.

[Rustlin’ Jack]

This information is off of the Ventura city website. Hopefully, when your photograph is reviewed by a real person, enough common sense will prevail that the citation will not be issued as you did not cross the intersection. Failing to stop at the limit line is great probable cause for DUI enforcement, but rarely, if ever, will someone be cited for stopping a few feet beyond the limit line. Red light cameras do not understand the difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.

https://www.cityofventura.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/10530/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-Red-Light-Cameraspdf

[Spanky8601]

The "violation" will be reviewed by an officer, before a citation is sent. I used to have a friend (retired LEO) who reviewed all "violations" and only forwarded actual "violations" to a citing officer. If you are cited you will be allowed to plea and then view the "violation", prior to having a court trial. (Might be in the courtroom). While it seems from your statement to be an actual violation, most officers usually want to see more intrusion into intersection before a citation is generated. Your mileage may vary.

[sheepdawg]

http://highwayrobbery.net/ is a website about how to handle red light tickets in California.

[Spaffo]

Red light cameras cause more accidents because drivers panic and ger rear-ended. Money-making scam that doesn't benefit the city much. The scammers running the system make the lion's share.

[RickD427]

You'll normally get a notice in the mail.

Camera violations are normally reviewed by an officer before the notice is sent. There has been a lot of litigation surrounding the use of the cameras, I've tried to follow the state of the law, but not as closely as I used to when I was working. I'd recommend doing some web research into the current state of the law.

Here's a couple of points to keep in mind:

1) There is no law violated by being the Registered Owner of a vehicle that is used to commit a traffic violation. California defines traffic infractions as "Crimes" (please refer to Penal Code section 16). One of the required elements of proof is that the person charged was the same person as was driving the vehicle at the time.

2) A lot of folks mis-believe that this makes it impossible to prosecute a camera violation. The point must be proved, but that can be done in many ways. It may be a simple as introducing the defendant's DL photo (those are digitized and are readily available to LEOs) and the driver's photo from the camera.

3) The likely violation to be charged from a "Red Light Camera" is Vehicle Code section 21453(a). That section requires a driver to stop behind the limit line when facing a red light. It's only necessary for the camera to show that the front of your vehicle was over the line at the time the light turned to red. It's legally irrelevant whether or not your vehicle proceeded through the intersection while the light was red.

[Tango_Down]

Red light cameras require frequent maintenance with a special tool. Here's the special tool you need.

[spyde12]

I cannot help you out much with the red light camera technology, and I personally dislike and distrust them. I think you may receive a citation for failing to stop behind the limit line. Failing to stop before your tires went over the line is part of the red light violation in California.


VEHICLE CODE - VEH
DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
CHAPTER 2. Traffic Signs, Signals, and Markings [21350 - 21468] ( Chapter 2 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

ARTICLE 3. Offenses Relating to Traffic Devices [21450 - 21468] ( Article 3 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

21453.
(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).

Thank you for citation.

Usually they have video, should be ok.


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I hope so...

I thought red light cameras were unlawful in CA

Doubt it since they're everywhere throughout the state.

I don't know if this will help you but I was at a red light camera stop and an ambulance came up behind me so I went through to let them through... I got a ticket,that came with a photograph that was clearly me and back then it was an out-of-state scam company that was running the whole thing and making deals with local city governments that they would supposedly get some of the money that this scam brought in.
anyway, you had to pay your ticket in advance I think it was around $400, even way back then, just to be able to legally go fight it in court later.
I paid it, I had to fight it and eventually I won but after two trips to deal with this scam I kind of felt the whole thing either should be ignored or just paid and save the hassle of dealing with the local court system, which was Worse than the out of State scam red light ticket system.

Not too long after that they removed them from a few cities because people were complaining that it was actually a large majority of the money that was leaving the state and those cities were getting just a small cut and a lot of angry people.

Good luck.

Thank you.

This information is off of the Ventura city website. Hopefully, when your photograph is reviewed by a real person, enough common sense will prevail that the citation will not be issued as you did not cross the intersection. Failing to stop at the limit line is great probable cause for DUI enforcement, but rarely, if ever, will someone be cited for stopping a few feet beyond the limit line. Red light cameras do not understand the difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.

https://www.cityofventura.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/10530/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-Red-Light-Cameraspdf

Thanks again... Fingers crossed.

The "violation" will be reviewed by an officer, before a citation is sent. I used to have a friend (retired LEO) who reviewed all "violations" and only forwarded actual "violations" to a citing officer. If you are cited you will be allowed to plea and then view the "violation", prior to having a court trial. (Might be in the courtroom). While it seems from your statement to be an actual violation, most officers usually want to see more intrusion into intersection before a citation is generated. Your mileage may vary.

I hope I get a common sense LEO that is assigned to review.

http://highwayrobbery.net/ is a website about how to handle red light tickets in California.

Thank you for this.

Red light cameras cause more accidents because drivers panic and ger rear-ended. Money-making scam that doesn't benefit the city much. The scammers running the system make the lion's share.

Personally, I agree... But it is what it is.

You'll normally get a notice in the mail.

Camera violations are normally reviewed by an officer before the notice is sent. There has been a lot of litigation surrounding the use of the cameras, I've tried to follow the state of the law, but not as closely as I used to when I was working. I'd recommend doing some web research into the current state of the law.

Here's a couple of points to keep in mind:

1) There is no law violated by being the Registered Owner of a vehicle that is used to commit a traffic violation. California defines traffic infractions as "Crimes" (please refer to Penal Code section 16). One of the required elements of proof is that the person charged was the same person as was driving the vehicle at the time.

2) A lot of folks mis-believe that this makes it impossible to prosecute a camera violation. The point must be proved, but that can be done in many ways. It may be a simple as introducing the defendant's DL photo (those are digitized and are readily available to LEOs) and the driver's photo from the camera.

3) The likely violation to be charged from a "Red Light Camera" is Vehicle Code section 21453(a). That section requires a driver to stop behind the limit line when facing a red light. It's only necessary for the camera to show that the front of your vehicle was over the line at the time the light turned to red. It's legally irrelevant whether or not your vehicle proceeded through the intersection while the light was red.

Thanks Rick...I was actually hoping you'd chime in. Part 3 is news to me, but at least now I know.

Red light cameras require frequent maintenance with a special tool. Here's the special tool you need.

Haha... I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted haha


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[SilveradoColt21]

Red light cameras require frequent maintenance with a special tool. Here's the special tool you need.

[Tango_Down]

The fact that the companies that sell these red light cameras get a piece of the profits from citations is so wrong and such a conflict of interest.

I read years ago where a city councilman heard so many claims about the cameras going off prematurely that he went down to one of the busy intersections and watched for a few hours. He witnessed multiple times were the camera went off prior to the light being red.

[spyde12]

The fact that the companies that sell these red light cameras get a piece of the profits from citations is so wrong and such a conflict of interest.



I read years ago where a city councilman heard so many claims about the cameras going off prematurely that he went down to one of the busy intersections and watched for a few hours. He witnessed multiple times were the camera went off prior to the light being red.

Around the corner of my mom's house where they installed a red light camera, it would literally turn green for 2-3 seconds and switch back to yellow and red. It was only affecting one side and not the other cross traffic.

The one impacted was the area where folks would have to exit out of after dropping off their kids at the school. There was a sharp increase in rear end collisions because folks would hit the breaks in such a short time.

They ended up getting it removed after a month because apparently there were tons of complaints.... That was my first confirmation it was a scam and not about driver safety.

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