LEOs - Is CCW info radioed to you?

[mk2dave]

CA is not a Duty to Report state, and neither is my IA.

If I'm carrying and have interaction with law enforcement, I will disclose my status and take direction from the officer on how to proceed.

If I'm not carrying, it seems like I'd still want to state that I'm a legal CCW holder but that I am currently not carrying.

If there's a chance the LEO would hear from dispatch about the CCW, it seems wiser to acknowledge the situation instead of letting the officer guess. But I dont want to escalate a situation needlessly.

What say you, LEO's?

[M1NM]

I'd imagine if dispatch advises a LEO that the RO of a car they just stopped was a CCW holder the first question out of his mouth would be "are you armed?".

[Yodaman]

CA is not a Duty to Report state, and neither is my IA.

If I'm carrying and have interaction with law enforcement, I will disclose my status and take direction from the officer on how to proceed.

If I'm not carrying, it seems like I'd still want to state that I'm a legal CCW holder but that I am currently not carrying.

If there's a chance the LEO would hear from dispatch about the CCW, it seems wiser to acknowledge the situation instead of letting the officer guess. But I dont want to escalate a situation needlessly.

What say you, LEO's?

Why do you mean duty to report. That so vague. Are you talking about mandated reporters?

Because some counties and CA have a obligation to report any LE interaction or your license can be recalled.


You post is kinda wazoo and seems like your looking for a possible reason to get out of a ticket or something.


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[SkyHawk]

You post is kinda wazoo and seems like your looking for a possible reason to get out of a ticket or something.


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This ^^

The first thing the cop is going to think when you say 'I have a CCW but am not carrying' is that you are looking to get a Junior G-Man courtesy pass.

[RickD427]

This same question keeps coming up every couple of months, and we always seem go off on tangents when it does.

It's difficult to give a clear answer to your question because of the many different dispatch systems in use through out the state.

Key to understanding the system is to understand how records are maintained by the state. Each state department has a number of databases. The DOJ maintains the Automated Firearms System which contains info on CCW holders. The Department of Motor Vehicles maintains the Vehicle Registry File and the Driver's License file. The systems are not directly connected. If an officer queries the Driver's License file, they're only gonna get Driver's License information, and nothing else. If they query the Vehicle Registry file, all they're gonna get is the vehicle information, and nothing else.

But where it gets complicated is with the use of Computer Aided Dispatch systems. Nearly every agency has some flavor of a CAD system and they all work differently. In a CAD system, an officer can input a person's name, or a vehicle license plate, and the CAD system will then query whatever systems it's programmed to query, and will then consolidate the information and return it to the officer. An agency can choose how they want to program their particular CAD system. I retired from my agency when they were on their second-generation CAD system (they're now on the third-generation). If I ran a person, the CAD system would query the DMV Driver's File, The State Wanted Persons File, The State Supervised Release File, The State Missing Persons file, and the County Warrants file and would then consolidate the information into a single return. If I ran a vehicle, the CAD system would query the DMV Vehicle File and the County Warrant File.

If an agency elected to program their CAD system to query the DOJ Firearms system for CCW information every time that a name check is done, they are free to do so. It would also be possible for them to program the CAD system to extract the Registered Owner name from the DMV Vehicle File, and then query that name in the DOJ Firearm file and then return that information to the officer.

There's a balancing point in all this information flow. The more info that you put through the CAD, the more bandwidth that is needed. There's also a human engineering component that if you provide too much information to a person, the information tends to be attenuated.

There is no requirement in statute for a CCW holder to notify LE officers that they are carrying. Many IA's impose such a requirement as a permit condition. IMHO, it's typically wise to make such a notification for two reasons: 1) Safety - If the LEO becomes aware that you're carrying and you didn't inform, there's going to be an inference of a criminal purpose drawn. That's not good. We hear too much of "concealed is concealed" but to a trained eye, a good LEO will pick up on the signals that a person is carrying. 2) Most field LEO contacts with private persons involve some potential for the officer to assess if criminal conduct is present. It could be as simple as a traffic violation, or something more serious. If you hold a CCW permit, you've been through a pretty extensive background check and that's going to have a lot of influence over the officer's decision of where to go with the contact, and that's gonna be to your benefit.

[geedavell]

This same question keeps coming up every couple of months, and we always seem go off on tangents when it does.

It's difficult to give a clear answer to your question because of the many different dispatch systems in use through out the state.

Key to understanding the system is to understand how records are maintained by the state. Each state department has a number of databases. The DOJ maintains the Automated Firearms System which contains info on CCW holders. The Department of Motor Vehicles maintains the Vehicle Registry File and the Driver's License file. The systems are not connected. If an officer queries the Driver's License file, they're only gonna get Driver's License information, and nothing else. If they query the Vehicle Registry file, all they're gonna get is the vehicle information, and nothing else.

But where it gets complicated is with the use of Computer Aided Dispatch systems. Nearly every agency has some flavor of a CAD system and they all work differently. In a CAD system, an officer can input a person's name, or a vehicle license plate, and the CAD system will then query whatever systems it's programmed to query, and will then consolidate the information and return it to the officer. An agency can choose how they want to program their particular CAD system. I retired from my agency when they were on their second-generation CAD system (they're now on the third-generation). If I ran a person, the CAD system would query the DMV Driver's File, The State Wanted Persons File, The State Supervised Release File, The State Missing Persons file, and the County Warrants file and would then consolidate the information into a single return. If I ran a vehicle, the CAD system would query the DMV Vehicle File and the County Warrant File.

If an agency elected to program their CAD system to query the DOJ Firearms system for CCW information every time that a name check is done, they are free to do so. It would also be possible for them to program the CAD system to extract the Registered Owner name from the DMV Vehicle File, and then query that name in the DOJ Firearm file and then return that information to the officer.

There's a balancing point in all this information flow. The more info that you put through the CAD, the more bandwidth that is needed. There's also a human engineering component that if you provide too much information to a person, the information tends to be attenuated.

There is no requirement in statute for a CCW holder to notify LE officers that they are carrying. Many IA's impose such a requirement as a permit condition. IMHO, it's typically wise to make such a notification for two reasons: 1) Safety - If the LEO becomes aware that you're carrying and you didn't inform, there's going to be an inference of a criminal purpose drawn. That's not good. We hear too much of "concealed is concealed" but to a trained eye, a good LEO will pick up on the signals that a person is carrying. 2) Most field LEO contacts with private persons involve some potential for the officer to assess if criminal conduct is present. It could be as simple as a traffic violation, or something more serious. If you hold a CCW permit, you've been through a pretty extensive background check and that's going to have a lot of influence over the officer's decision of where to go with the contact, and that's gonna be to your benefit.

I love it when Calgun's Finest come up with a simple answer to the question without lashing the guy for making such a question.

[Gordon]

Geez that was a very good answer

[mk2dave]

Thank you all for your input.

RickD spoke to the nature of my question by going into great detail about how/what info is relayed to the LEOs. This is what I was looking for.

My intent was not to appear to be a Junior G-man. If I deserve a ticket, and there are occasions where that has certainly been the case, then I'll deal with the ramifications.

My original thinking was that IF the CCW status was conveyed to the Officer and I'm not carrying at the time, I don't want to leave them wondering I'm going for my wallet or something else. Simple self preservation.

Duty to Report. AKA Duty to Inform. I've heard both. Am I obligated to tell a LEO if I'm carrying? My understanding is that legally I do not. Although when the situation comes up, I will. What I was asking about has nothing to do with reporting interactions with LEOs to my IA, as there is no requirement where I live.

If I'm not carrying, then it sounds like the best plan is to act as if I am (interior lights on, windows down, hands on the wheel, etc.), and just answer his questions respectfully. If they do have CCW info, then they'll ask.

Thanks again, RickD, for your thorough response to my awkwardly phrased question.

[Yodaman]

Thank you all for your input.

RickD spoke to the nature of my question by going into great detail about how/what info is relayed to the LEOs. This is what I was looking for.

My intent was not to appear to be a Junior G-man. If I deserve a ticket, and there are occasions where that has certainly been the case, then I'll deal with the ramifications.

My original thinking was that IF the CCW status was conveyed to the Officer and I'm not carrying at the time, I don't want to leave them wondering I'm going for my wallet or something else. Simple self preservation.

Duty to Report. AKA Duty to Inform. I've heard both. Am I obligated to tell a LEO if I'm carrying? My understanding is that legally I do not. Although when the situation comes up, I will. What I was asking about has nothing to do with reporting interactions with LEOs to my IA, as there is no requirement where I live.

If I'm not carrying, then it sounds like the best plan is to act as if I am (interior lights on, windows down, hands on the wheel, etc.), and just answer his questions respectfully. If they do have CCW info, then they'll ask.

Thanks again, RickD, for your thorough response to my awkwardly phrased question.

If you are carrying, your IA manages if you need to report to the officer. You should check with the
To verify. If you do not report, and you are supposed to, and the stop goes bad. You may lose your license


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[Shumba]

I believe in Orange County, it is a condition of our CCW permit to inform if you are carrying.
It has been a long time since I've been pulled over, but in that situation, I place my CCW behind my driver's license and hand both to the officer when they ask for my license. I don't say anything about it and let the officer ask if they choose to.
If I'm not carrying (although I pretty much do all the time), the CCW would just stay in the wallet

[pricedo]

I know the Alaska State Troopers get very irate if you're carrying and don't tell them right away on a stop. But AK is a duty to report state.

[Yodaman]

I believe in Orange County, it is a condition of our CCW permit to inform if you are carrying.
It has been a long time since I've been pulled over, but in that situation, I place my CCW behind my driver's license and hand both to the officer when they ask for my license. I don't say anything about it and let the officer ask if they choose to.
If I'm not carrying (although I pretty much do all the time), the CCW would just stay in the wallet

Your supposed to tell the officer you are carrying in OC. So letting him decide to ask is not staying within the TOS you signed. Just an FYI


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[9Cal_OC]

Your supposed to tell the officer you are carrying in OC. So letting him decide to ask is not staying within the TOS you signed. Just an FYI


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By presenting the permit to the officer is a form of disclosure. If the officer has follow-up questions upon seeing said permit, he may ask, from what I read from his post.

[TOM_ONE]

I've never seen it. I don't think it even comes up when I run them for guns registered to.

If they tell me they have a CCW, I just ask where it's holstered and don't reach for it.

[socom2shooter]

I agree with what tom one said. Its not a big deal but theres no reason not to make it known. I realize this senario is specifically for when you're not carrying, but if you are i think i would be pissed if someone didnt tell me. You'll likily get a good conversation out of it. More importantly if you have a ccw i am of the opinion that you should never not be carrying. But that's just my opinion.....